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15 Mar 2019 12:15 #94071 by TwoRazorReign

You say it was made and played specifically for Ben Peal who was in attendance. Did you perchance have a point to prove? What did he say about this monstrosity?


Ben made the finals, as well as Mewcat. I think his reaction was modest until I recurred a Banishment and went from 3 pool and probably losing to 11 pool and in total control of the game (Ashurs + liquid + voter cap). The power of liquid ashurs is in pool gain and crafting your deck with the recursion, with the added benefit of choosing a card that best fits your immediate future.

My point is that liquidation and (mostly) ashurs are bad for the game. I made a few critical decisions, but mostly I just played masters in my hands and outlasted my predator with pool gain until my deck was thinned out and I could just make my deck whatever I want. That type of recursion shouldn't exist in this game.


You're talking like the Ashurs Tablets + Liquidation combo is something new you just discovered. It's been around for more than a decade now. The "point" you're making is old news.

He was 1 gw, 7 vp in 2 rounds. You don't need acceleration when u make piles of pool in master phase. People have to play risky to oust you, basically suiciding, which I did end 2 and mark did in finals.


That's really the rub, isn't it. To outpace the pool gain you really have to lean into them. And it's true that it cost both of you dearly.


This sounds like sour grapes. Maybe a deck that is considered "risky" when it needs to bleed for a lot should lose in a tournament?

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15 Mar 2019 12:36 - 15 Mar 2019 12:37 #94072 by DJHedgehog

You're talking like the Ashurs Tablets + Liquidation combo is something new you just discovered. It's been around for more than a decade now. The "point" you're making is old news.


No, I don't think I'm a genius deck builder. No, I don't think I found a hidden combo.

I think people have kind of moved passed the novelty of the cards and they've only gained power because of it. Ashurs only balance is that you can get in an ashurs arms race of sorts with other players at the table. Without other ashurs you just blindly play master cards and become a really hard deck to oust, until you've thinned your deck enough to really explode.

Maybe you're right that it's old news. I want to bring it back to the forefront. I'm going to keep making shitty sloppy decks that aren't at all tested and I guarantee I'll do well and/or win tournaments with them because I included 25-30 copies of 2 master cards. The point, hopefully, is that we can see how low-effort, high-results this is and maybe get some errata or bans.

Maybe not and that's fine too. I've chosen my trajectory and hopefully I can get the results to back it up.
Last edit: 15 Mar 2019 12:37 by DJHedgehog.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lech

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15 Mar 2019 13:28 #94073 by DJHedgehog

I am thinking since you only have 1x Anarchist Uprising... an Emerald Legionnaire deck would be a really annoying predator. Or is that why Entrancement is in the deck?


I haven't been preyed on by EL yet, so I don't know for sure how that would pan out. They have a similar time to get to critical mass, so I'm hoping I can get established before they get a chance oust me.

To answer your question, yes, Entrancement was meant for EL (and carlton, ossian, other dumb allies people play). The bleed option means it's never dead and the ally theft option is so huge when it comes up. Please make a warghoul, garou, or some other high-cost ally.

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15 Mar 2019 13:56 #94074 by jblacey

To answer your question, yes, Entrancement was meant for EL (and carlton, ossian, other dumb allies people play). The bleed option means it's never dead and the ally theft option is so huge when it comes up. Please make a warghoul, garou, or some other high-cost ally.


You mention it takes you a while to get to critical mass. Roughly many actions are you taking each turn? 2 or 3 max?

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15 Mar 2019 14:13 #94075 by DJHedgehog

To answer your question, yes, Entrancement was meant for EL (and carlton, ossian, other dumb allies people play). The bleed option means it's never dead and the ally theft option is so huge when it comes up. Please make a warghoul, garou, or some other high-cost ally.


You mention it takes you a while to get to critical mass. Roughly many actions are you taking each turn? 2 or 3 max?


Yeah, unless I'm blocked it's 1 action per minion. In a perfect world, Anson would come up first and probably not take any actions (unless I have a soft pred/prey or I get the obf master card early). Start churning masters and bring up more dudes. Probably turn 5-6 before I start really pushing forward.

All the deck does is bleed so it's really boring. I think with the changes I mentioned the deck gets better at early pressure not dependent on anything but stealth cards.

To your point earlier, Archon Investigation is a real threat. I probably got lucky (at least 1 time I did get lucky because my grand prey was going to AI leandro but I had spying mission).

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15 Mar 2019 14:29 #94077 by LivesByProxy
As a relatively new player, the deck / combo seems degenerate. I want to see vampires taking actions and interacting with cards on the table. MMPA decks would seem to undermine that and the premise of the game as a whole.

But I am reminded of the recent conversation on here about milling. If you're milling yourself for 7+ cards a turn, perhaps having more effects that punish having a large ash heap will deter such strategies. *Looks at Trochomancy.* And if you're recurring cards, perhaps effects that punish recursion would be another deterrent.

Infestation
:action: Requires :nosf: or !nosf!
:ani: Put this card into play. Whenever your predator or prey shuffles 1 or more cards from their ash heap back into their library, that Methuselah burns 1 pool.
:ANI: As above, and whenever your predator or prey shuffles his or her library after searching for a card, that Methuselah burns 1 pool.

Grey Golem Construct :ally:
:THA: When recruited, move all cards from your prey's ash heap under the Grey Golem. The Golem has X life and X strength and X bleed, where X is the number of cards under it divided by 4. It cannot have or gain stealth, and it cannot attempt employee, equip, or recruit actions. Burn 1 card (placing it back into it's owners ash heap) from the Golem at the beginning of your Minion Phase.


Good luck, DJHedgehog. (BTW, I have this Monday night off, details on how do I join Lackey / Discord to play?)

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.

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