check TWD - Belgian National championship 2023, Mechelen (7th May 2023)

09 May 2023 15:31 - 09 May 2023 20:43 #108045 by Maaike2go
Belgian National championship 2023
Mechelen, Belgium
May 7th, 2023
38 players
Bram Van Stappen

Deck Name: nobody bounces like Schumi does
Author: my alteration of schumachers alteration of my auspex bounce deck
Instructions for use: pray to God, beg the universe and make a sacrifice to Lilith
to have a bleeder behind; sit back, relax and enjoy the show.

Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=3 max=10 avg=6.25)
1x Elizabeth Westcott 5 ani cel vic AUS Tzimisce:3
1x Goratrix 10 vic ANI AUS DOM THA Tremere antitribu:2
1x Isabel de Leon 3 AUS Toreador:2
1x Kazimir Savostin 7 ani pot AUS VIC Tzimisce:3
1x Little Tailor of Prague 8 dem ANI AUS VIC Tzimisce:2
1x Lolita Houston 4 aus VIC Tzimisce:2
1x Meshenka 8 ANI AUS VIC Tzimisce:2
1x Rose, The 5 aus PRE VIC Tzimisce:3
1x Sascha Vykos, The Angel of Caine (ADV)8 ani dom AUS THA VIC Tzimisce:2
1x Caliban 6 ANI AUS VIC Tzimisce:2
1x Corine Marcon 6 ani AUS VIC Tzimisce:2
1x Devin Bisley 5 vic ANI AUS Tzimisce:2

Library: 90 cards

Master (19 cards)
1x Erciyes Fragments, The
1x Giant's Blood
1x Hungry Coyote, The
1x Jake Washington
1x Library Hunting Ground
1x Pentex(TM) Subversion
1x Powerbase: Barranquilla
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Rack, The
3x Rötschreck
1x Smiling Jack, The Anarch
6x Villein

Action (1 cards)
1x Army of Rats

Action Modifier (2 cards)
2x Changeling

Combat (18 cards)
3x Quick Jab
5x Breath of the Dragon
1x Canine Horde
9x Chiropteran Marauder

Retainer (1 cards)
1x Mr. Winthrop

Equipment (8 cards)
2x .44 Magnum
2x Heart of Nizchetus
1x Ivory Bow
1x Kevlar Vest
1x Leather Jacket
1x Bowl of Convergence

Reaction (41 cards)
8x Eyes of Argus
1x Forced Awakening
6x My Enemy's Enemy
6x On the Qui Vive
13x Telepathic Misdirection
7x Eagle's Sight

:trem: Blood never lies :trem: - Prince of Mechelen
Last edit: 09 May 2023 20:43 by Ankha. Reason: Removed mysterious
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ankha, Hakuron

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12 May 2023 19:04 #108081 by Maaike2go
Final table recap by Ruben Van Cauwenberghe

Hey VTES fans,
'so what happened on that table ?' , 'Why did you ... ? , 'What were you smoking ?' and 'Can you please write a report of the final ?' were some of the questions I got after finishing the final of the Belgian National VTES tournament held at Mechelen on 07/05/2023.

The good : it was a good tournament, with 38 methuselah's present from various countries, the biggest we had in a long time in Mechelen. Atmosphere was great. Our local venue was as tidy as I 've ever seen it, and our new prince Maaike was showing off her organisational skills. There was plenty of food and drink to be had, and honestly some of the best games I've had. We have a lot of newer players in our community and they all had fun, some even made their first VP's ever, big thanks to all for that. Kudo's to the organisation, to all who participated. All good...
So what about that final ? ;)

The bad : Well it wasn't bad per se. The seating was exactly as I imagined it would be. I had a small hope Bram (Tzimisce AUS) would place himself in front of Rolf (Weenie dom) to use the bounced bleeds to kill Vincent (Inner Circle pro). But he didn't dare and chose to be the predator to Rolf, but Steffen (Kyasid Bleed) had the same idea. I think most figured at some point the table would turn on the weenie Dom, and whoever was it's predator could probably count on help to get an easier VP. Steffen (Kyasid) => Rolf (dom) => Vincent (circle) => Ruben (Ministry) => Bram (Tzimisce)
For Vincent the game was very bad & ugly as well. He could bring out Adana, villein her, call a vote and voter cap for to full, and still died the next turn. Nothing anybody could do. Down to Four players. I had a very good starting hand with Saatet-Ta. The minion costs 2 pool, but the way to stop a weenie dom is to have a lot of untapped minions. With Saatet-Ta I had an extra blocker, and because I could Garibaldi an organised Resistance back to my hand every turn, I could effectively pay 1 pool to stop a bleed of 3+ every turn. It did help I drew a lot of my reactions in the first 20 cards. So I could stop Rolf, but only if I did nothing. Leave all my vampires untapped. Every action I took, would cost me either pool due to a bleed unblocked, or cards played I knew I wouldn't draw again, or a vampire torporised if the Tzimisce caught me. So I started calling for help from either Steffen or Bram. Because the way I saw it, I could stop Rolf, but then Rolf would die to Steffen. And I didn't see myself stopping Steffen at all. I have a bit of intercept, but no way near enough to stop a dedicated Stealth bleeder like the Kyasid. So I was going to die... And with that Steffen would get 2 vp's and the game would be over.
And Bram plays an intercept deck, while my hand was all reactive. I had 1 permanent stealth from Saatet-Ta, but none in hand. (I did have form of the bat for -1 intercept, but I wanted that card to counter Rolf's suppresion fires)

The ugly : And I agree it was ugly. There was something in the rules I did not know. That happens when you played the game 20 years ago, and start playing again. But one should know the rules of the game we play, so that's 100% on me. Back in the days (AFAIK) you should play to maximise your victory points. Also in the final. Not true anymore, you have to play to win, and nothing else matters. So the deal of me ousting Steffen and Rolf for Bram, after which Bram would allow me to oust him would get us each 2VP, but since Bram was the higher seat, he would win, I would be second. Second was better then dying without vp in my book, so that's what I played for, since I didn't see myself ousting Bram before succumbing to either DOM bleeders. The ugly part being that the deal was illegal, but because Jorge as a judge is not allowed to intervene in table talk (and he judged that and the entire final perfectly) he could only call an illegal play when I played my second reckless agitation, the one that would oust Steffen and hurt Rolf further.
So what did I do wrong ? Not the Reckless Agitation, I stand by that play. Ousting Steffen, as shitty as that was for him and myself, was the correct play for me. The mistake I made because I was going for our deal, was for me to block the govern the unaligned at superior from Rolf. That is the only play I would change if I could redo it all, because I only did that to oust Rolf, but that was illegal. So my only chance left was to go after Bram, while hoping Rolf would stay alive long enough for me to oust Bram. My chances were not great, but that should and would have been my play if I had known about the no points for second place rule.
The rest played out pretty much as expected. With Rolf in survival mode, I was hurting Bram for 4 pool with 1 action every turn, and got him to 8. But then Rolf was about to die, so I had to make a move. Bram had extended himself a bit in an attempt to block Rolf and I was hoping Rolf could bounce back at least 1 bleed. That's where those 3 extra pool from the govern down would have been clutch, they could have given Rolf and me another turn, him to survive, me to do 4 more damage. With Bram at 4 he may even have to stop bleeding and stay untapped who knows... But as you all saw (amazingly nice broadcast of the final btw, loved watching it all over again, but still hate seeing myself play, sorry) Bram had 2 more wakes and 2 more bounces, while Rolf had none. So I ousted Rolf and the rest is history.
To the people saying I should have just tried to oust Bram, I made the judgement I could not pass Bram's AUS wall. And Bram confirmed to me he had the 2-3 intercept needed and the Rötshreck when I made the agitation plays. Getting a vamp torpored at that time, and tapping to rescue would have given Rolf the opening he needed. Again IMHO. Should I ? Could I ? maybe... but we'll never know. And surely it would have been another game, but I think there is a good chance the outcome wouldn't have been very different. Congratulations to Bram, and back to reading the rules again for me...

One more remark. After watching it all again. You may have noticed I was asking Bram repeatedly if he was trying to oust me. That was another , and actually very big reason, why I didn't go forward. In my mind, the best Bram could do was to oust me. It would make my VP go to Rolf, and not to Steffen. Even with 6 pool Steffen would bleed out Rolf, and Bram could hold the dom bleeder with ease. Steffen would only get 1 vp, and all Bram needed to do was stop the Kysasid 1-1 to get 2 points and because of seating he would be first. So the last thing I wanted to do was give him a reason to go for that play...

:trem: Blood never lies :trem: - Prince of Mechelen

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13 May 2023 18:09 #108086 by kschaefer
Ruben,I appreciate the detailed explanation of the game from your perspective. I watched the final and from an outsider's perspective. These comments are made without knowing what was in your hand; I only know what you played.

I thought you should have tried to go forward more while Vincent was dying. I think that might have only been one turn, perhaps two, I'd have to rewatch to be sure. But an early Saatet-Ta gives you a good chance to get by Bram. He needs two intercept to block you and that's without you playing any transient stealth. You seemed to be at an early advantage there. Perhaps you might have gotten a vote off against Bram in the early stages where you have this stealth advantage. (I know that you'd have to have dealt with Vincent, but he was basically out.)

Even if the game proceeded as it did when Vincent was ousted. From there, I think the move is to oust Rolf or ensure that he can be ousted. This is the opposite of what you were thinking.

Regardless of how bad Steffen is for you, you had played a Bait and Switch by that point, so you could be paying 1 pool (via the Museum) to bounce that damage on Bram, with some luck (ie a Voter Cap), you might break even on some turns. Ousting Rolf would have kept Bram from gaining 6 pool, but more importantly it would force Bram to protect you. He can't really afford to bounce the bleeds back, he has to try to block, which uses his intercept resources against someone that isn't you.

If you get to the three-player with the top seed with a single VP, everyone has a chance. Bram loses if Steffen gains a 2 VPs and either you or Bram could win as last man standing, as long as Steffen doesn't oust you. It's a much riskier position to be in, but it's the one that gives you the highest upside for winning.
The following user(s) said Thank You: alf, hardyrange, Joscha, Hakuron, NecroB

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