Proposal: Advanced Library Cards for New Set

Izaak,
If you think the opinion of someone who will have to administer any future rules has no point in contributing to the rules, then I'd say you have your head shoved somewhere rather dark and smelly.

I would expect that as a Prince (and someone who regularly judges tournaments) that my opinion on how the rule should be written to ensure a minimum of cheating/etc would be valued. It is about bringing the practical enforcement angle into the creation of the rule to start with.

If you think the opinion of someone who will have to administer any future rules has no point in contributing to the rules, then I'd say you have your head shoved somewhere rather dark and smelly.

Oh I see. So you were consulted on the RTR 2012 rulings? Or on the 7/7/7 ones? Or ANY rule changes and update for that matter? Don't kid yourself here.

I think, if you expect that every random Joe that happens to judge or organize a tournament has something to say about the rulings, I suggest that you change your expectation. Especially, given that after having it explained to you at least twnice now, you still don't seem to quite grasp the concept of virtual cards.

I would expect that as a Prince (and someone who regularly judges tournaments) that my opinion on how the rule should be written to ensure a minimum of cheating/etc would be valued. It is about bringing the practical enforcement angle into the creation of the rule to start with.

Except that you make these statements under the false assumption that (v) cards have to be similar to the regular card, an errata'd or upgraded card, as you wish. Which they do not. So before suggesting any rulings for a system you should first familiarize yourself with the concept more and then you'll realize that your suggestion under (1) makes no sense whatsoever.

In the virtual card world, you are basically saying "If you play at least one Telepathic Counter in your deck, I will have to assume that all your Majesties are also Telepathic Counters".

And that makes no sense. Whatsoever.

Izaak wrote:

1) You don't need to bother with art. The are is already there, thus allowing you to focus on actual game effects instead of art.

Granted, that's the best point of the approach.

2) It allows, as above, rewriting of wallpaper cards without issuing endless errate lists. People will just have to play the virtual version of the card and therefore nobody will have to rely on an eidetic memory to know exactly what every card does.

If the VEKN wanted it that way, they could just issue errata and let people paste the new text on the old card. How is your solution better?

3) It keeps the secondary market alive and changing. If Twisting the Knife (v) would actually be a good card, then the value of Twisting the Knife would go up. With the system VEKN has chosen, it will be very easy to just print "Summon Future" with some new art, but with the exact same card text as Summon History, instantly crashing the secondary market for it.

I fail to see that as a good point. First, it opens the door to insider trading: how do you prevent a playtester from grabbing all the cheap copies he can before the new text is publicly released? Second, not all VTES players like to chase cards, otherwise there would not have been regular requests to turn it into an LCG when it was still in print. With its 2 hour format and strong social element, VTES is not your typical CCG. The players come from different backgrounds, be it the RPG, CCGs or boardgames.

Moreover, there has been a persistent (and completely justified) trend to reprint good cards only. Many of the candidates for virtualisation will turn into real chase cards because they have not been printed in 10 years. Star Wars CCG was produced for 6 years, VTES for 16. The access to old cards is already a real problem for attracting and keeping new players, the last thing we need is to make it worse.

4) It keeps rarity in the game (and with it the trading aspect). If the Crimon Sentinel (v) was an insanely good melee weapon, it still wouldn't be in every deck, for the same reason you don't see the Heart in every deck currently - not everyone owns sufficient of them to put a copy in every deck.

It is not rarity that limits unique cards. When you need a Heart for a tournament, you can always find somebody to lend one. And are are you really saying that Girls decks with 9+ Ashur, 6+Liquidation and 6+ Villein don't play the Heart because they can't afford it?

5) It gets rid of the proxy discussion entirely, because new cards are not actual proxies. They still require investment in a collection, respecting the first C in CCG.

As long as you still need to paste another paper on an existing card, the problem remains the same for the people who don't want sleeves. Besides the VEKN has clearly stated several times that it would not allow proxies for now, and I don't see how one could make a viable only with the 35 cards (including vampires of different clans) from the next expansion. Internet expansions that small will not decrease the value of existing cards because you will still need original cards as the bulk of your deck.

6) You can easily update and change the virtual cards if they proof to be bad, broken or generally not healthy for the game. You simply update the text file and require people to always play with the latest version of virtual cards.

Same goes for a pdf expansion.

7) And, as an icing on the cake, there would be ZERO copyright problems, because you're not actually recreating anything that is copyrighted.

That is obviously wrong. If it was true, then CCG publishers for other games would never have had to come up with a whole thesaurus of synonyms for the word "tap". After all, they were not trying to print fake MtG cards, were they? The copyright issues remain exactly the same, except that you have nothing to sell so it is easier to stay under the radar.

This is a reply to the objections posted above:
ad 2) the "rewriting of wallpaper cards without issuing endless errate lists" doesn't mean adding words/lines or rephrasing, it means: a) the original card is left as it is (for clarity's sake, here's an example: Surprise influence, Requires a ready vampire. Only usable during the referendum of a political action. This reacting vampire gains 2 votes.) b) by rewriting a new, virtual card is created: Surprise influence (v): Cost: 1 blood. Only usable when another Methusaleh is being bled. Tap this reacting vampire to cancel a reaction card that doesn't require a Discipline.
VEKN obviously don't do this, becouse they do not think about this possibility. They want to create new cards (i.e. new name, picture, text.)
ad 3) This certainly is a weak spot, yet one that can easily be circumvented: by not using controvers (= too rare, old, whatever) cards. and, on the other hand, what is so wrong with trading old, up to now worthless cards again? Do cards have "inherent value" or something? Their cost, apart from their "material cost" is solely dependent on the market, which is driven by symbolic values of the cards. Insider trading: oooh, I guess this has never happened yet, has it? This is an academic objection, valid in a world far, far away.
ad 4) Good Lord - "in every deck" in the original post means: I currently have 10 decks built, yet I play the Heart only in two of them, because I have 2 Hearts. I won't be playing all 10 decks in a tournament and I might add one of the Hearts in my tournament deck.
ad 5) this is the crucial point: in my view, virtual cards are not proxies. Print-outs of any card which is put in front of another card on the other hand - is. I know this is not the reasoning of the IC and others, yet I can't rid myself of the feeling that I won't like playing with the new cards. This is the first and most important reason why I'm advocating the v-cards.
ad 6) - yes.
ad 7) Now here I can't really offer much of an answer, but here's an illustration: all of the new v-cards in Star Wars, all of the new rulebooks - everything the community has so far done, is always done IN SPITE of Lucasfilm. The phrase they use is: Not Endorsed or Sponsored by Lucasfilm.
I don't know, maybe the Star Wars Player's Commitee has a sort of understanding with Lucas, a sort of "detante", but it seems to me like he just can't do much about it - unless he'd want to look like real jerk.

Never played Star Wars CCG but if that system works great for that game it totally should be considered and researched more. I guess there are also other CCGs in same situation as Vtes. How things are managed in those games? Stupid trying to reinvent things anyway.

Phobia
Mummify
Erosion
Eyes of the Dead
Surprise Influence
Up Yours!
Smoke Grenade
Ahriman's Demesne
Command
Crimson Fury
Fractured Armament
King of the Mountain
Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt
Twisting the Knife
Lobotomy
Legacy of Caine
Sunrise Service
Lifeless Tongues
Cloak of Blood
Delivery Truck
Toy Chest Test

There is some cards you can start with! Also can add all the clan hosers and all the 'hold' cards in that list.