Long Term Investment
30 Apr 2012 05:08 #28984
by direwolf
Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.
Long Term Investment was created by direwolf
New fan-created cards are being developed using the same methods used to develop a traditionally published collectible card game.
Per se, I don't have a problem with that. My concern is further development. What about the next set? And the one after that? Twenty sets down the road?
We are dealing with a different form of distribution. Right now designing new cards for the game has to deal with a huge amount of cards that were previously published.
Three sets from now, we will have even more cards to take into consideration when designing and balancing new cards. But all of those electronically distributed cards can be changed. It requires the player to reprint the new version of older cards, but that is a small price to pay for game balance and more flexibility in further card development.
One of the things that I have always liked about Vampire: the Eternal Struggle is that cards are rarely banned. Your cards are good for legal play forever.
There is even precedent:
We have "card text migration" when a card is reprinted in a new set with updated text. We have "errata" where card text is changed or explained in better detail. We have "rulings" which determine how a card interacts with the rules or other cards
With an electronically distributed and self printed card game you can actually make those changes. For a card text migration, errata, or card ruling you don't have to look up the new card text when playing an older version when you can print out the new version.
Going a step further, we can alter "officially published" cards by simply requiring players to print out the new version of the card and placing it in a sleeve with the original card. After all, to play the new V:EKN sanctioned cards you will have to do the same.
I could go on. I have a lot of thoughts on this subject, but this is a lot to think about. Please, I want to hear what other people think about electronic distribution of cards, and how it affects card development.
Per se, I don't have a problem with that. My concern is further development. What about the next set? And the one after that? Twenty sets down the road?
We are dealing with a different form of distribution. Right now designing new cards for the game has to deal with a huge amount of cards that were previously published.
Three sets from now, we will have even more cards to take into consideration when designing and balancing new cards. But all of those electronically distributed cards can be changed. It requires the player to reprint the new version of older cards, but that is a small price to pay for game balance and more flexibility in further card development.
One of the things that I have always liked about Vampire: the Eternal Struggle is that cards are rarely banned. Your cards are good for legal play forever.
There is even precedent:
We have "card text migration" when a card is reprinted in a new set with updated text. We have "errata" where card text is changed or explained in better detail. We have "rulings" which determine how a card interacts with the rules or other cards
With an electronically distributed and self printed card game you can actually make those changes. For a card text migration, errata, or card ruling you don't have to look up the new card text when playing an older version when you can print out the new version.
Going a step further, we can alter "officially published" cards by simply requiring players to print out the new version of the card and placing it in a sleeve with the original card. After all, to play the new V:EKN sanctioned cards you will have to do the same.
I could go on. I have a lot of thoughts on this subject, but this is a lot to think about. Please, I want to hear what other people think about electronic distribution of cards, and how it affects card development.




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30 Apr 2012 07:13 #29001
by Ashur
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Replied by Ashur on topic Re: Long Term Investment
Yeah, it´s excellent that the new "pdf-cards" can be altered if somethings goes wrong and must be changed. No gazillion-card print run has been made.
But I don´t have the same worries about the future as you do. Sure it seem dark right now, but if we´re lucky a company picks up VTES and starts printing it again. What we have to do is convince them that the pdf-cards VEKN produce in "the gap" is high quality and worthy of printing for real.
But I don´t have the same worries about the future as you do. Sure it seem dark right now, but if we´re lucky a company picks up VTES and starts printing it again. What we have to do is convince them that the pdf-cards VEKN produce in "the gap" is high quality and worthy of printing for real.
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
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30 Apr 2012 07:19 #29002
by Ohlmann
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Re: Long Term Investment
We want VtES to be attractive to start again. Barring a fan with some spares millions, this mean the economic model should be something tried and true. Electronically altered card that fully utilise the numerical world will not appear as something that ould sell as well as magic.
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30 Apr 2012 09:18 #29016
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Long Term Investment
On the other hand, *if* a company buys VTES and choose not to print those cards, it's not catastrophic. Just some design.playtest work lost (which is sad) but nothing too bad for the game. I'm much worried by the new cards they will print.What we have to do is convince them that the pdf-cards VEKN produce in "the gap" is high quality and worthy of printing for real.
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30 Apr 2012 12:26 #29041
by Ashur
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Replied by Ashur on topic Re: Long Term Investment
Of course not catastrophic, but not desirable. And yes, it would be horrible if someone that don´t understand the game started to make cards. But they would be really stupid if they didn´t let some very able people handle that bit.On the other hand, *if* a company buys VTES and choose not to print those cards, it's not catastrophic. Just some design.playtest work lost (which is sad) but nothing too bad for the game. I'm much worried by the new cards they will print.
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
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02 May 2012 02:47 #29228
by direwolf
Independent Futurist. Contrarian (titled, X votes where X is the number of votes as the acting minion.) Target Vitals is always the better combat card.
Replied by direwolf on topic Re: Long Term Investment
I think the whole business model needs to be changed.
1) there aren't enough players to justify huge printing runs (the profit margin is smaller with fewer cards printed)
2) all of our old cards are still good for play, so players don't have to buy new cards
At this point, we recruiting new players is near impossible. Sure, those of us with large collections can share or sell to new players, but the cost of getting a lot of the good cards is prohibitive.
There is something we can do about the second problem.
If the game were sold "print on demand" there would be a higher cost per card, but there would be less waste as players would buy the cards they wanted. There would have to be some game changes:
1) Will there be card limits for "power cards" or will the game have to be balanced around the fact you can have an unlimited number of a card in your deck?
2) Perhaps cards would be bought in "packs" based on a number of "common" "uncommon" and "rare" cards per "pack"
These are things that V:EKN should be thinking about as they release sets electronically. We need vision and innovation whether or not this game is officially published again.
1) there aren't enough players to justify huge printing runs (the profit margin is smaller with fewer cards printed)
2) all of our old cards are still good for play, so players don't have to buy new cards
At this point, we recruiting new players is near impossible. Sure, those of us with large collections can share or sell to new players, but the cost of getting a lot of the good cards is prohibitive.
There is something we can do about the second problem.
If the game were sold "print on demand" there would be a higher cost per card, but there would be less waste as players would buy the cards they wanted. There would have to be some game changes:
1) Will there be card limits for "power cards" or will the game have to be balanced around the fact you can have an unlimited number of a card in your deck?
2) Perhaps cards would be bought in "packs" based on a number of "common" "uncommon" and "rare" cards per "pack"
These are things that V:EKN should be thinking about as they release sets electronically. We need vision and innovation whether or not this game is officially published again.




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