Inquisition Related Cards

Ohlmann wrote:

A simple and vague (like the one we talk about) is exactly as bad as a precise and long one. You may say it's easy to understand for people involved in the lore, but fact is, rule does not support that. There explicit rule that a prince must be camarilla, but none that force black hand to be sabbat, nor Inquisitor.

And to be honest with you, that ONLY exists because of an LSJ ruling. It's possibly one of the more ridiculous and bone-headed rulings I can think of. The Black Hand is a Sabbat organisation exclusively. So honestly, I'd push for a change on the rules sooner than I'd change that card Ohlmann. The Rules when even compared for internal consistency with Anarch and Archon which are keywords and not titles which both go when you change sect are wrong. And since it is a RULING that supports this, it is even easier to change because it doesn't even require an edit for the rulebook. About the only thing it does is nerf a single fairly obscure decktype that utilises Anarch BH vampires.

Reyda wrote:

Am I the only one to think that burning a ready Lazverinus with one blood with no action is a bit too much? No relation whatsoever to the Inquisition, burn him anyway. Oh, and let's Anthelios that back for the next victim. Bah...

1) MMPA decks tend to not meet the requirements (Archbishop, Cardinal or Seraph)
2) What other texts would you add in to make it something other than COMPLETELY useless if there aren't Inquisitors/Templars ready?
3) I can easily see the Black Hand turning around and nuking someone because they believe they may be part of the Inquisition.

black hand vamps are sabbat by default but can infiltrate other sects. That's spying. It's not a ruling. It's just a trait on cards. and to gain that trait in the first place, you have to be sabbat. (exception being Trophy:chosen)

So the thematics is respected all the way.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

Reyda wrote:

Am I the only one to think that burning a ready Lazverinus with one blood with no action is a bit too much? No relation whatsoever to the Inquisition, burn him anyway. Oh, and let's Anthelios that back for the next victim. Bah...

1) MMPA decks tend to not meet the requirements (Archbishop, Cardinal or Seraph)
2) What other texts would you add in to make it something other than COMPLETELY useless if there aren't Inquisitors/Templars ready?
3) I can easily see the Black Hand turning around and nuking someone because they believe they may be part of the Inquisition.

1) Is there only one type of MMPA deck ? Last time I checked, parthenon and Rumors of gehenna were available to most voters.
2) I don't know pal, it's your set. Maybe "send to torpor" ? Which would at least allow the target to try to defend his vampire ? Burning a vampire out of the blue has always be seen as stupid, and should be a complicated feat. Fabrizia Contreraz playing this on a big cap low on blood is just nonsense...
( by the way I know you can argue about Society of leopold, but a vessel or hunting ground makes the difference. It gives a chance, even a slight one, to the target.)
3) If the designers wanted the black hand to be able to burn a vampire on the spot, they would have given them. There's still ebony fox hunt, which seems balanced.

Anyway, it's just that I feel that card would be abused if it was printed as it is.

reyda wrote:

Black Hand vamps are Sabbat by default but can infiltrate other sects. That's spying. It's not a ruling. It's just a trait on cards, and to gain that trait in the first place you must be Sabbat

So, in the same game where you lose your status as an Anarch (a trait) if you are no longer Independent (a sect) a minion should be able to stay Black Hand (a trait) while no longer Sabbat (a sect)?

What is wrong with Anarchs infiltrating other groups? What is wrong with Camarilla potentially infiltrating the Anarchs or Sabbat if they wanted?

There is more logic, and systematic consistency, to binding Black Hand (and Seraph) to the Sabbat Sect. This makes the Black Hand trait follow the same rules as the Anarch trait, the non-title traits of Archon and so on.

It is just reflected in other ways. Think Marcus Vitel or jack tredegar...
Come on, is it because this isn't done the way you would like it, that it entitles you to complain so loudly about it ? :/

I'm going on about it because I think its actually important that VTES has internally consistent rules. What entitles me is that I want VTES to be a simpler and easier game for new players.

Basically... if it belongs with the Sect in the "bolded" part of the vampire's card text, then when you change the sect you delete the rest too.

Some more Inquisition Related Cards...
Appearance of Good
Action
Requires a Bahari or Infernal minion.
+1 stealth.
Put this card on the acting minion. Cards played by other Methuselahs treat this minion as if it was not Bahari or Infernal.
Everyone sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are, and those few dare not oppose the opinion of the many. - Machiavelli
[img size=400]https://bba89af2-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/juggernaut1981svtesdownloads/home/vtes-card-creations/infidels/Appearance of Good.jpg[/img]

Change of Address
Action
Requires an Inquisitor or Templar.
+1 stealth.
Burn any location, retainer or non-vehicle equipment controlled by your prey or predator. If that card was on a minion, that minion takes 2 unpreventable damage. If the card required a Bahari or Infernal minion then the targeted player also burns 1 pool.

[img size=400]https://bba89af2-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/juggernaut1981svtesdownloads/home/vtes-card-creations/infidels/Change of Address.jpg[/img]

Friends in High Places
Reaction
2 blood
Requires a Cardinal, Priscus or Archbishop
Cancel a action by a younger or untitled vampire targeting a Sabbat, Bahari or Infernal minion you control. You may pay the cost of this card from the original target of the action if that minion is Bahari or Infernal.

[img size=400]https://bba89af2-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/juggernaut1981svtesdownloads/home/vtes-card-creations/infidels/Friends in High Places.jpg[/img]

Infernal Ghoul
Ally
1 pool
Requires a Bahari or Infernal vampire
2 life 1 strength 1 bleed
If resolving an action or referendum would burn a Bahari or Infernal vampire you control, you may burn this ghoul and send the vampire to torpor instead.
It is a necessary price my servant, for the greater cause. I'm sure you understand... - Ansen, the Devil's Advocate
[img size=400]https://bba89af2-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/juggernaut1981svtesdownloads/home/vtes-card-creations/infidels/Infernal Ghoul.jpg[/img]

Roadside Stop
Reaction
Only usable during a action targeting an Inquisitor or Templar or a card on an Inquisitor or Templar.
The current action ends unsuccessfully. The acting minion may burn 1 blood to cancel this card. If this card ends the action unsuccessfully and the acting minion is Infernal or Bahari, you may burn a vehicle on that minion or deal them 2 unpreventable damage.

[img size=400]https://bba89af2-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/juggernaut1981svtesdownloads/home/vtes-card-creations/infidels/Roadside Stop.jpg[/img]