Buried under rubble - non combat potence card
19 Nov 2012 19:49 #41236
by Ohlmann
The point is, it's not exactly that bad to be allowed to choose which vampire take the damage.
Also, since peoples including me tend to complaint that games are too static, giving an edge to the acting vampire and not the reacting one seem a good step.
Lastly, the card have to be more powerful than Obedience or Revelation of despair, because you choose to block, while you cannot force another methuselah to block.
Well, Kiss of Ra is not exactly a powerful card for me, being way too difficult to use with its cost.
And it's a lot easier to avoid the effect of this card in regard to ending up in torpor than Kiss of ra : you just have to villein a bit less, or be more conservative with the blood on your vampires.
And, since you need pretty restrictives condition for it to sent people to torpor with it, it will be a lot less efficient as a surprise card. If your bloodless vampire is blocking, you were already half expecting it to be sent to torpor anyway.
Approximation of loyalty is powerful, but limited to 7+ against 6- only. Seduction need to be used as the action is announced, meaning you can't make your opponent waste wake with it. So it's not like they cover each and every possibles bases.
Since blocking is actually needed for the card to be playable, this one will not work well against bounce. The superior will however help tremendously against any deck that rely too much on a single blocker.
Having access to potence is not enough to shine in combat, you need to actually play combats cards. A lot of them for potence combat : you need some maneuver, some taste of blood since Potence does nothing to protect you from hitback, maybe some Immortal grapple, etc.
Card flow is for me the main reason for which bruise'n'bleed is wonky at best. And with the relative popularity of animalism combat, if you are not commited to full combat avoiding it is a pretty useful option, even for
user.
I don't understand how this card would promote less minions interactions than Seduction or Approximation. Seduction is an automatic no-interaction clause. Approximation is a canceler on which not a lot of thing can be done, you mostly just wait your opponent to run out of approximation (the only decision with it being to declare a bounce *before* your opponent play a bleed modifier, if you have the windows for it)
This one, once your prey know you play it, will still allow him to have meaningful decisions, since his block will actually work. He have to decide which action seem the more menacing, since regardless of wake in hand and such he have a real possibility to not be able to block or react with its vampire.
As to why the inferior only do 1 damage - well, the effect is already pretty powerful, since you pay nothing and the blocker pay 1 blood. And since people tend to manage blood on vampire very tightly, 1 damage can already cause a lot of headaches..
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Re: Buried under rubble - non combat potence card
No, more like your Obedience / Revelation of Despair is stuck in your hand and you've taken the damage I couldn't give you because there wouldn't have been a combat anyway.
The point is, it's not exactly that bad to be allowed to choose which vampire take the damage.
Also, since peoples including me tend to complaint that games are too static, giving an edge to the acting vampire and not the reacting one seem a good step.
Lastly, the card have to be more powerful than Obedience or Revelation of despair, because you choose to block, while you cannot force another methuselah to block.
I object more to the cost, as I'd compare the card to Kiss of Ra , which requires the blocker not to have a specific discipline and costs 3 blood.
In the late game, or after a Villein , this could be better.
Well, Kiss of Ra is not exactly a powerful card for me, being way too difficult to use with its cost.
And it's a lot easier to avoid the effect of this card in regard to ending up in torpor than Kiss of ra : you just have to villein a bit less, or be more conservative with the blood on your vampires.
And, since you need pretty restrictives condition for it to sent people to torpor with it, it will be a lot less efficient as a surprise card. If your bloodless vampire is blocking, you were already half expecting it to be sent to torpor anyway.
I don't think Lasombra or Brujah need more ways to neuter bounce. Seduction and Approximation of Loyalty already are solid, but last only for the turn. This provides partial lock down for several actions (and a whole table round for your predator).
Approximation of loyalty is powerful, but limited to 7+ against 6- only. Seduction need to be used as the action is announced, meaning you can't make your opponent waste wake with it. So it's not like they cover each and every possibles bases.
Since blocking is actually needed for the card to be playable, this one will not work well against bounce. The superior will however help tremendously against any deck that rely too much on a single blocker.
Basic recoups no action, just eliminates combat -- an area where potence shines -- in exchange for a ping.
Having access to potence is not enough to shine in combat, you need to actually play combats cards. A lot of them for potence combat : you need some maneuver, some taste of blood since Potence does nothing to protect you from hitback, maybe some Immortal grapple, etc.
Card flow is for me the main reason for which bruise'n'bleed is wonky at best. And with the relative popularity of animalism combat, if you are not commited to full combat avoiding it is a pretty useful option, even for
user.Barely even comes out as a wash, mostly a bad exchange. Superior removes minion interaction greater than a Seduction or Approximation. Strong, but to what real metagame benefit?
I don't understand how this card would promote less minions interactions than Seduction or Approximation. Seduction is an automatic no-interaction clause. Approximation is a canceler on which not a lot of thing can be done, you mostly just wait your opponent to run out of approximation (the only decision with it being to declare a bounce *before* your opponent play a bleed modifier, if you have the windows for it)
This one, once your prey know you play it, will still allow him to have meaningful decisions, since his block will actually work. He have to decide which action seem the more menacing, since regardless of wake in hand and such he have a real possibility to not be able to block or react with its vampire.
As to why the inferior only do 1 damage - well, the effect is already pretty powerful, since you pay nothing and the blocker pay 1 blood. And since people tend to manage blood on vampire very tightly, 1 damage can already cause a lot of headaches..
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19 Nov 2012 22:44 #41247
by Juggernaut1981
Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Buried under rubble - non combat potence card
The only change I'd consider making to that card text is:
As 
above, and the blocking minion cannot play reactions or attempt to block until the end of the current minion phase.
As above, and the blocking minion cannot play reactions or attempt to block until the end of the current minion phase. Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
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