HoS clan card idea

Do hoS even need more stealth? I mean, they have block fail card, a stealth/intercept card and a (bit largish) vamp with +1 stealth. It's not like they have an overabundance of stealth available, but if I were doing a HoS card, I'd go entirely different route:

something like:

prevent 2 damage
+2 bleed. You cannot further increase bleed etc...

You know, multi-usable cards that need HoS disciplines but aren't restricted to only HoS (I'm a big fan of cards like these, like Mind of the Wilds or Read the Winds - a Tzimisce card usable by other vamps too).

Suoli wrote:

I'll just leave this here.

Insurance Scam
Type: Master
Master.
Put this card in play. During your turn, you may tap this card and burn X locations you control to gain X pool.

Insurance Scam has some synergy with it, but isn't easily abused: "Locations with shadow counters are not counted as locations for non-action cards or effects."

Ohlmann wrote:

And the pool to play the locations.

And drawing every moving part in the good order.

And the fact you need thoses arson to pass. It's a +0 stealth undirected action

All of that to use thoses location for +stealth instead of their regular action ? I am sorry, it's very weak, especially since you need three of thoses to pass through a 2nd trad.

Opium den is a good card because it don't need an infinitely long setup to work. Here it's way too much work for anything that don't imply a direct oust.

Are you trying to be wrong about everything? It really isn't much work. It only costs an MPA. You don't have to draw anything in the right order -- it makes no difference if you play this before or after playing the locations. Lots of locations have no cost other than an MPA or an action to put them into play. Lots of locations are worth playing for what they already do, and many of them do their original thing without tapping, so the stealth use would not be *instead* of the other use. Arson is not the only way to burn a location and anyway, if you can't manage a successful action to burn your own location, you're not going to successfully do anything but get ousted. You don't need three shadow locations to beat a 2nd Tradition. That's like saying you need two Lost in Crowds to beat a 2nd Tradition. But, once you have three shadow locations you can beet a 2nd without playing cards.

Ohlmann wrote:

Dummy corporation is trouble with this card. It may not be your intent, but quasi permanent -2 bleed can be hellish.

The only problem I can see would be if you had multiple EFTS is play and you could bring back your Dummy Corp repeatedly in the same turn, so maybe EFTS should be unique.

Molloy wrote:

Ohlmann wrote:

Dummy corporation is trouble with this card. It may not be your intent, but quasi permanent -2 bleed can be hellish.

The only problem I can see would be if you had multiple EFTS is play and you could bring back your Dummy Corp repeatedly in the same turn, so maybe EFTS should be unique.

Now that I think about it, Dummy Corp would not be a problem. When a location with a shadow counter is burned, EFTS does not see it as a location and cannot bring it back. A Dummy Corp could only give -2 bleed twice, one as a location in the Skinlands and once as a location in the Shadowlands.

Molloy wrote:

Are you trying to be wrong about everything? It really isn't much work. It only costs an MPA. You don't have to draw anything in the right order -- it makes no difference if you play this before or after playing the locations.

It's delusional in my opinion to say that it's not way too complicated for the end.

There is no much to add at this point ; if you're persuaded the card can be useful, try it, see you are steamrolled into oblivion, or maybe playing an insurance scam deck, and you will conclude this does not address anything for Harbingers.

Also, the wording is confusing and the text is extremely long. Like I said, the concept is cool, but the card is irredemably flawed.

I like the basicprinciple of tearing stuff into the shadowlands, but im not sold on it being locations or grantimg stealth. Assume harbingers can get wraiths to give them a hand, and then it would make sense to let them burn an ally and get +1 stealth against its controller, or give all minions trying to block -1 intecept (wraiths manifesting to cause a small ruckus) or even see another players hand, get +hand size (although they already can play cards for both of those things). Its thematically within thier abilities.

I think having wraith/risen allies that are HoS specific would help. A risen who can play basic fortitude and gets +1 intercept against vampires, or a wraith/spectre that blocks or bleeds for 2 with some sort of damage dealing, but goes away after it gets into combat.

They need something, im not sure if this is the way to go.

Ohlmann wrote:

Molloy wrote:

Are you trying to be wrong about everything? It really isn't much work. It only costs an MPA. You don't have to draw anything in the right order -- it makes no difference if you play this before or after playing the locations.

It's delusional in my opinion to say that it's not way too complicated for the end.

There is no much to add at this point ; if you're persuaded the card can be useful, try it, see you are steamrolled into oblivion, or maybe playing an insurance scam deck, and you will conclude this does not address anything for Harbingers.

Also, the wording is confusing and the text is extremely long. Like I said, the concept is cool, but the card is irredemably flawed.

Was the irony in this noun intentional due to the shadowland theme? Im tired and found it funnier than i should have.