file Submission: Melee weapon enhancers

12 Oct 2014 16:11 #66456 by jamesatzephyr

Claymore
2 pool
Strength +2 each strike. The bearer may not gain any additional stike unless he as POT or VAL, in wich case he or she gain an additional strike once per fight.


Is that a free additional strike for people with POT or VAL? If so, it's a fairly potent weapon in such hands - 2 pool for 6 damage a round. Or is it intended to be a limit to the number of additional strikes they can gain? If so, the wording needs clarifying.

Is it a melee weapon? Presumably, but needs the keyword if so.

Samiel's sword
3 pool
!salu!
Unique
Strength +2 undodgeable each strike. The minion with this weapon pay cards requiring Valeren or !salu! one less blood. The minion with this equipement can prevent 1 damage each round and can cancel a grapple card each fight.


That's quite a lot to pack into one weapon - defeats dodge, defeats simple aggro-poke, cheapens cards, makes life much less comfortable for the pot/cel deck


Sanctioned Duel
Only usable before range is chosen. Grapple.
val : Strike that are not weapon strike may not be used this round.
VAL : as above and set the range to close for this fight.


This feels... wrong.

A sanctioned duel isn't a grapple. Indeed, it's hard to say that fighting with a melee weapon is really a grapple, though you can probably let it go as a generic V:TES-ish term for "close range combat shenanigans".

But... this isn't only at close range. This affects gun users too, even if they're at range. This affects gun users, even if you are the gun user yourself. I'd be concerned about going down a route where the !Salubri have an incentive to be a gun user as part of something like a variant of stick-men. With a .44 Magnum or similar, you could go to range even when you don't have a Sanctioned Duel in hand, shoot, possibly add ammo or Targets, probably save yourself a lot of damage prevention. When you face stiffer opposition, you can toss in the Sanctioned Duel so that they can't S:CE or Dodge, even when you're at range, and even toss in a Death Seeker.

Assuming that you were going toe-to-toe with a deck, I'm not wild about shutting down an opponent's ability to surprise you with a hand strike of some sort, be it aggro-poke, Target Vitals or even the humble Lucky Blow.

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12 Oct 2014 17:31 - 12 Oct 2014 17:35 #66459 by Lech
I think part of the reason why guns are prefered to melee weapon lie in costing scheme and support cards. Out of the box, .44 is just better than even unique 0 cost weapons, as the 2 pool is saved by the optional maneuver each combat with ease.

So i suggest:
Little Surprise
:obf: combat
Only usable before range is determined.
:obf: Equip with non-location equipment from your hand that cost this minion less than 1 pool.
:OBF: Look at up to as many cards from your library as capacity of this vampire. You may equip with non-location equipment that cost this vampire less than 1 pool. Only 1 superior each combat.

This card would not only allow vampires with obf choose it instead of disguised weapons to equip with melee weapons, but they would hava a chance to cycle/equip camera phone/ perma-maneuver against guns/ get mere reliable granades/ equip leather jacket to prevent damage.

It's mostly meant to improve nosferatu and assamite combat,and maybe some odd malkavian builds.

Best of all, it doesnt help gun decks, as there is no 0 cost gun equipment cards. Perhaps it should have cumulative cost, so people don't just use tons of those each combat. Finally a reason to have obf as combat vampire. Superior don't help weenies much, so i hope i did it right.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.
Last edit: 12 Oct 2014 17:35 by Lech.

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12 Oct 2014 18:55 #66462 by Saupiquet
To jamesatzephir,
Sure i forget to add melee weapon keyword. I also made a mistake with claymore, it's strength +1.

I still count myself as a beginner but i have seen that Vtes as plenty "emblematic" weapons : femur of toomler, sword of nuln, of troile, of jugement, etc. And i think none of them are played in any competitive decks. Sure, sword of samiel looks good and may need some changes but you get my point. Emblematic weapons needs to be good to be played. Fight decks have auto included cards : taste, fame, vessel... Why not an Emblematic weapon in some of them ? When you're new to the game and take a look at Brujah cards you see all the cards to seek weapons but none of those options are compétitives.

I have play !sal and really death seeker is great but can't be compared to immortal grapple. Any idea to make something similar for melee weapon users ?

:POT: :VAL: :TEM: :AUS: - !salu! :trub: :tzim:

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12 Oct 2014 21:05 #66471 by Klaital
Main problem is that most weapons are not worth to waste an action to equip, which is why weighted walking stick is the most popular weapon in the game. Also pretty much all gun decks use concealed weapons to get their guns, and .44 magnum just happens to be the best weapon you can conceal out.

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13 Oct 2014 07:05 #66492 by Lech

Main problem is that most weapons are not worth to waste an action to equip, which is why weighted walking stick is the most popular weapon in the game. Also pretty much all gun decks use concealed weapons to get their guns, and .44 magnum just happens to be the best weapon you can conceal out.


... which is problem with both .44 and concealed weapon. I'd love to see Concealed Weapon errata, to make it up to 1 pool, which would effectively kill cel gun decks as we know it, and would force them to use either Deagle (they would lose on maneuvers and Psyche! synergy OR on damage, forcing them to use target vitals/magazines to up their damage potential.

Either way, it's a win/win for Melee weapon users - and :assa: would still have a chance to play old disguised .44 way.

.44 is most cost efficient weapon up until Assault Rifle/AK47, so even with concealed up to 4 pool, people would run .44.

To make Melee Weapons better, there have to be some good way to equip them, preferably in combat. As most generic Melee Weapons are tier trash (sorry, but Str+1 is way worse than 2R), conceal weapon just don't cut in, and disguised offer no advantage over going full gun. My suggested card try to address the point.

:laso: :CEL: :DOM: :OBT: :POT: :cap8:
Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

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29 Oct 2014 02:40 #67052 by alasteir
Just remembered about this topic today reading the WoD: Combat. In facto, disengage, hsymaker. Stutterstep and a lot of other combat Cards seems to be taken from it.

Vitor Hugo
:laso:
:obf::pre::POT::OBT::cap8:
Sabbat. Vitor gets +1 vote against any referendum of a political action.

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