Samedi rituals and equipment

OK, I'm probably going to come off as a Samedi nut here (I'm quite partial to Lasombra, !Gangrel/Gangrel, Toreador, Giovanni, !Ventrue/Ventrue too!), but if I don't record these somewhere, I'll forget them. Apologies if I'm over-saturating the forum here

Again, themed stuff, but think it'd improve play as well. White Wolf gave vague hints about The Baron, zombies and Caribbean death magic, which has led me to comment in other posts about Louisiana Voodoun. Historically, the root-magic, potions and charms were collectively known as Hoodoo, also sometimes referred to as Obeah (which was obviously already been appropriated. This is, as I said, not from the source material, but I would hope extends the spirit of what there is.

Protective Ouanga
Samedi equipment
If successfully equipped, you may move this equipment to any ready minion you control. Bearer may prevent 1 damage each combat, or burn to prevent 2 damage. A minion may have only one Protective Ouanga.
"Ouanga: the voudoun tradition for charms, amulets, talismans and so on, for luck and protection".

Trenchant Wanga
Samedi
Only usable before range is determined on the first round. Put this card on this minion. While in play, this Minion has +1 hand strength, or may burn this card to strike for 2R. Burn this card during your next untap phase.
"Wanga: a negative or evil Ouanga".

Compelling game need: no Samedi equipment, these are well-themed. The second makes the Samedi slightly more combative (a serious failing given that the source material says they are notorious assassins and mercenaries).

chrisn101 wrote:

OCompelling game need: no Samedi equipment, these are well-themed. The second makes the Samedi slightly more combative (a serious failing given that the source material says they are notorious assassins and mercenaries).

I think they're both quite 'cute', but by being Samedi don't do as much as they could/should be doing.

The bigger question is: what are the Samedi for? Thanatosis has a number of interesting cards, and there are a few neat trick decks, but the Samedi face problems such as:

- good stealth and multi-acting capability from Obf and For, but very little solid payload for their actions. Reanimated Corpse + stealth is probably the best option, but at inferior Than it's quite expensive for what it is.

- some interesting combat options, but a couple of the close range ones aren't hand strikes (making them very vulnerable to IG), and while Withering is quite cool, it doesn't help vs an opponent playing S:CE or Dodge. Yes, they have options for prevention, but there isn't really a solid combat package here.

- no sensible political options (only one title, few good vote push options). This is obviously perfectly reasonable - not all clans need to be good at politics - but it's another thing they have trouble with.

- awkward defensive options. There is some potentially decent bloat in a card like Little Mountain Cemetery, either via transfers or via master cards when you've brought the guy out, but it's a lot slower and less certain than intercept, bounce, or action fails (e.g. Champion). And it's not as solid as bloating via breed-boon, or massive blood gain and Villein.



And so I quite like Trenchant Wanga(*) on its own. Strength or ranged damage, temporary, kinda fun. But if we're improving combat for the Samedi, I'd much prefer a really solid card for them that helps deal with common problems like S:CE, like Dodge, like needing more cards to reach a weaker outcome than other clans e.g. nothing comparable to Disarm or Blur; Compress is more expensive than claws and (if you're acting) has to be paid up-front, rather than waiting to see if your opponent plays an annoying strike first - the aggro-poke deck, for all its troubles, can wait until it sees you play S:CE before deciding whether to play a Claw; Groaning Corpse being generally weaker than Carrion Crows; Olid Loa meaning you want to be at range, but most of the Samedi/Thanatosis tech being close range. Then, making a card require Samedi means it has one level playable by a 2 cap, with no upgrade for being a 10 cap - so making Thanatosis a bit more voodoo-y would probably be a nicer way of accomplishing that.

So, taking Trenchant Wanga and bastardising it completely without knowing the real world side of things at all:

It feels a bit more like something solid to do, even if not as superficially exciting. With Olid Loa, it could form a reasonably solid short-chain package - slightly better than your standard Potence flung junk - possibly a fraction too good, at inferior. I'm loathe to suggest a blood cost, or move the maneuver to superior. Maybe make it a Do Not Replace card instead?


With Protective Ouanga, I'm not sure what I'd do - but I'd much rather see something solid, interesting, good for the Samedi to do that moves them a little closer to an oust, or a little more solid at avoiding an oust, than a vague 'support' card that sort of replicates defensive options they already have. It'd be a fairly decent card to print if they already had a clutch of options, but...



(*) Any name involving "wang" appeals to my inner ten-year-old.

Hi jamesatzephyr,

Thanks - I keep thinking "Oh no, that'd be seriously overpowered" - obviously I have much to learn .

"Trenchant Wanga" meant (to me anyway, apologies for not fully expanding) a cobbled-together shiv with a sort of blessing/imbuement (gris-gris, although they are general amulets), hence why it only lasted a while, and while Wanga are supposedly given to enemies/buried near their property, no reason why it couldn't be used to make a offensive weapon a little bit deadlier. The Samedi aren't known for being rich ("Vast Wealth" on a Samedi is as likely as "Aching Beauty" on a Nosferatu), so a common knife/shiv (as an equipment that doesn't cost pool) sort of makes sense.

The hand strength at basic increases hand damage: playing a Thanatosis card such as Withering and inflicting two damage makes the bloodline a bit more respectable.

If I'm free to suggest something a bit more powerful:

Shiv Wanga
Samedi/Harbingers equipment
Only usable before strike resolution. Put this card on this minion. While in play, this Minion has +1 hand strength with an optional manoeuvre each round, or you may burn this card to strike for 3R that cannot be prevented.
Burn this card during your next untap phase.
"Wanga: a negative or evil Ouanga".

As to the other, cards like Dead hand or Soul burn are quite common will be played during a game in my playgroup, and for a clan well-versed in Fortitude and Necromancy it's surprising they haven't come up with something to help cope with that sort of threat (especially should they plan on reuniting with their brethren Harbingers against the Giovanni).

Protective Ouanga
Samedi/Harbingers Unique equipment
Only usable before range is determined on the first round.
Put this card on this minion and put 4 counters on this card. Remove one counter from this card to prevent one damage from the opposing minions' strikes. Burn this card when it has no counters. A minion may have only one Protective Ouanga.
"Ouanga: the voudoun tradition for charms, amulets, talismans and so on, for luck and protection".

(Both, being equipment, are vulnerable to being destroyed; while because it's opposing minions' strikes, Carrion Crows etc are still threats).

I would agree with your analysis of Samedi weaknesses. Another idea:

Empoisoning Wanga
Samedi Unique equipment
2 pool
The Samedi with this equipment gets +1 bleed. Minions opposing this Vampire in combat cannot dodge this minions' initial strike in the first round and Press or Combat Ends cards cost them an additional blood.

Wanga
Combat
Only usable by a minion with a melee weapon.
[thn] Strike: Strength + 1. If this strike deals damage (even if it is prevented or reduced to 0) the opposing minion must burn 1 blood to use presses in the press step.
[THN] As [thn] above, but this minion may burn 1 blood to cancel a S:CE as it is played by the opposing minion.

Ouanga
Samedi
Equipment
When a Samedi equips this card you may move it to another ready vampire you control. Prevent 1 damage per action. If the minion with this card is Samedi, they may burn it to prevent 2 damage.

Viperous crossbow
2 pool
Weapon, gun.
1R, unpreventable by Fortitude, with an optional maneuver each combat. Only usable once per round. Samedi and Harbingers of the Skulls inflict an additional 2 damage.

Flavour text
Quiet, and quite deadly.

Art notes
A loaded black crossbow held in one hand, the holder wears a old duster. A small vial is part of the darts' tip.

World of Darkness reference
None that I'm aware of, but I don't think every equipment is mentioned in the the source material.

How does this card address a compelling game need?
Continuing with the semi-alchemistic idea of Thanatosis. Any one can (theoretically) modify a crossbow to include a poison, but the Samedi/Harbingers have far greater knowledge of Cainite physiology, so such wielders benefit most. Obviously it takes a while to reload, so the wielder still has to chose carefully (although Samedi can Hidden Lurker, Harbingers have the Auspex version).

As always, interested in your thoughts

chrisn101 wrote:

Viperous crossbow
2 pool
Weapon, gun.
1R, unpreventable by Fortitude, with an optional maneuver each combat. Only usable once per round. Samedi and Harbingers of the Skulls inflict an additional 2 damage.

Potentially problematic. Additional damage added to a strike inherits the properties of the base damage - so you're able to get 3 semi-unpreventable damage with a Target, or to throw Dragon's Breath Rounds on it for two semi-unpreventable agg damage... It just feels a little wonky. If you dropped the 'gun' trait from it, it would probably still be pretty solid.