Foundation (card submission)

Another alternative:

+1 stealth action
Requires a laibon vampire
Put this card in play. If the acting vampire is a magaji untap him or her if this action is successful. Each Aye and Orun in play counts as two for effects tallying Aye or Orun. Any titled vampire can burn this card as an D action.

And would this really break the game?

+1 stealth action
Requires a laibon vampire
You may search search library and / or ash heap for X Aye or Orun where is X the number of laibon you control. You may place these cards on one or more laibon you control. If the acting vampire is a magaji untap him or her if this action is successful.

Doubt it.

The problem with orun/aye is they just suck.

In vtm, they act more as a bolt-on humanity-like score. Not a 9-card hat that is USELESS without brutal influence.

If orun/aye were treated right, it wouldve been like humanitas/archetypes/whatever. They take up deck space for nominally weak extras.

Fishing up a billion helps brutal influence. I can assume Darby is giggling at the idea of something that sets up bleeds of a billion and governs for 12. Burn clause is less than meaningful on that card.

Now, "treat this as A/O for everyone" sounds cool, im just unsure its worth making at this point. Again, because orun/aye take stupid amounts of setup for limited gain.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

The problem with orun/aye is they just suck.

In vtm, they act more as a bolt-on humanity-like score. Not a 9-card hat that is USELESS without brutal influence.

If orun/aye were treated right, it wouldve been like humanitas/archetypes/whatever. They take up deck space for nominally weak extras.

Fishing up a billion helps brutal influence. I can assume Darby is giggling at the idea of something that sets up bleeds of a billion and governs for 12. Burn clause is less than meaningful on that card.

Now, "treat this as A/O for everyone" sounds cool, im just unsure its worth making at this point. Again, because orun/aye take stupid amounts of setup for limited gain.

IMO it is basically either better to ignore Aye or Orun or make them a lot better. I've been sitting in the first camp a long time, but would like to consider the latter. As you say, Aye and Orun suck right now.

Brandon, im all for making wallpaper playable, but im still stuck on"how many deck slots!?!" Every time.

Is it better to re-work the concept or add better incintive to stack so many on a vamp?

Looking at other mechanics, Anarch is worth it, but has help and doesnt junk up your deck. Redlist is SOOOOO the king of incentives for combos, but only Norm has faith in it working.
Research/Developement is a combo to do combos, and i see moving pieces and wasted slots as an enemy of progess.

Would better support make it better, or a re-haul?

I cant decide which. But im only half-vested. Abombwe and no secrets are enough for me....