Submission: Inherent knowledge
17 Apr 2016 10:40 - 10 May 2016 14:30 #76474
by Zombieking
Submission: Inherent knowledge was created by Zombieking
Inherent knowledge
Master: Discipline.
Cost: 1 pool
Put this card on a vampire you control and choose a Discipline he or she has at basic. This vampire gains 1 level of that Discipline. Capacity increases by 1: the vampire is one generation older.
How does this card address a compelling game need?:
This allows bloodline vampires to increase their in-clan disciplines. It does not allow other clans access to their spooky disciplines, and has more versatility than creating a separate discipline card for each bloodline clan.
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^ I feel that younger bloodline vamps have a diffult time gaining access to superior versions of their clan disciplines (i think the only regular options are agents of power, field training, sanguine instruction). This is the issue i was trying to address!
Edit - cost of 1 pool added - It's more expensive than a standard discipline card, but has the versatility to become ANY discipline the vamp already has at basic.
Master: Discipline.
Cost: 1 pool
Put this card on a vampire you control and choose a Discipline he or she has at basic. This vampire gains 1 level of that Discipline. Capacity increases by 1: the vampire is one generation older.
How does this card address a compelling game need?:
This allows bloodline vampires to increase their in-clan disciplines. It does not allow other clans access to their spooky disciplines, and has more versatility than creating a separate discipline card for each bloodline clan.
-
^ I feel that younger bloodline vamps have a diffult time gaining access to superior versions of their clan disciplines (i think the only regular options are agents of power, field training, sanguine instruction). This is the issue i was trying to address!
Edit - cost of 1 pool added - It's more expensive than a standard discipline card, but has the versatility to become ANY discipline the vamp already has at basic.
Last edit: 10 May 2016 14:30 by Zombieking.
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18 Apr 2016 08:10 #76488
by alek
Replied by alek on topic Submission: Inherent knowledge
nice, good addition to the game.
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19 Apr 2016 07:42 #76515
by GreyB
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19 Apr 2016 08:52 #76519
by ICL
Replied by ICL on topic Submission: Inherent knowledge
This allows non-bloodline vampires with the basic discipline to gain superior, which is a few. That doesn't bother me so much.
It allows anyone with Vial of Elder Vitae to start building up the discipline. I'm not sure that bothers me from a balance standpoint, as it would only mean having basic after a turn, so two copies plus a Vial to max out. It does bother me a bit aesthetically in that I don't want to see a lot of Vial decks appear just to get Renewed Vigor or whatever.
What also bothers me a bit more is that this isn't remotely bloodline specific. This seems like something that would show up all of the time for, say, going to DEM/OBF or DOM/THA or whatever other upgrades.
As much as I'd like to see Ahrimanes sup up, Samedi sup up, DoC sup up, or whatever, there's a reason this sort of card hasn't already been made. Could give it a scarce only restriction to make scarcies less bad, but that doesn't address this set's focus or the wider problem that certain disciplines are hard to sup up.
It allows anyone with Vial of Elder Vitae to start building up the discipline. I'm not sure that bothers me from a balance standpoint, as it would only mean having basic after a turn, so two copies plus a Vial to max out. It does bother me a bit aesthetically in that I don't want to see a lot of Vial decks appear just to get Renewed Vigor or whatever.
What also bothers me a bit more is that this isn't remotely bloodline specific. This seems like something that would show up all of the time for, say, going to DEM/OBF or DOM/THA or whatever other upgrades.
As much as I'd like to see Ahrimanes sup up, Samedi sup up, DoC sup up, or whatever, there's a reason this sort of card hasn't already been made. Could give it a scarce only restriction to make scarcies less bad, but that doesn't address this set's focus or the wider problem that certain disciplines are hard to sup up.
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19 Apr 2016 11:55 #76522
by Zombieking
Replied by Zombieking on topic Submission: Inherent knowledge
Thanks for the feedback guys 
Actually I'd be inclined to make it more expensive to play:
because it can give a boost to ANY existing discipline, this versatility could make all standard discipline cards redundant. So maybe it should cost a pool, a blood, or tap the vamp it's played on or suchlike?
Yeah, I deliberately worded it so it could be used outside of the bloodline clans too. It's definitely something bloodlines would benefit from having access to, and if it is costed appropriately then it might see use in the broader game as an altrernative to standard discipline cards.

Nice card, should be a trifle
Actually I'd be inclined to make it more expensive to play:
because it can give a boost to ANY existing discipline, this versatility could make all standard discipline cards redundant. So maybe it should cost a pool, a blood, or tap the vamp it's played on or suchlike?
What also bothers me a bit more is that this isn't remotely bloodline specific.
Yeah, I deliberately worded it so it could be used outside of the bloodline clans too. It's definitely something bloodlines would benefit from having access to, and if it is costed appropriately then it might see use in the broader game as an altrernative to standard discipline cards.
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19 Apr 2016 17:19 - 19 Apr 2016 17:22 #76533
by chrisn101
The problem with this is that it is quite similar to Spontaneous Power . SP costs two pool but can be any discipline (even if the Vampire doesn't possess a level) and doesn't increase the vampire's capacity. Similarly, there's also a Trifle, Agent of Power , which is free and confers a temporary level. Given the costs of these two cards, it would suggest this card would be a Master action and cost a pool.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a particular fan of Sanguine Instruction because if anything, it should not teach only within the same clan. And also because it's an action. And, at only one stealth, can fairly easily be blocked. A Master card version would be far better (e.g. "Choose two vampires that you control, one of which has with a superior discipline that the second vampire does not: put this card on the second vampire. They gain a level of the chosen discipline and their capacity increases by one").
However there's already a bloodlines !Salubri Master card: Blooding by the Code (not forgetting some equipment like Amulet of Temporal Perception ) so it looks like there was intention for there to be bloodline Master cards for the disciplines. Obviously if the development team has a limited number of card slots, a single Master card is more appealing than several clan-specific Master cards though.
Replied by chrisn101 on topic Submission: Inherent knowledge
Inherent knowledge
Master: Discipline.
Put this card on a vampire you control and choose a Discipline he or she has at basic. This vampire gains 1 level of that Discipline. Capacity increases by 1: the vampire is one generation older.
The problem with this is that it is quite similar to Spontaneous Power . SP costs two pool but can be any discipline (even if the Vampire doesn't possess a level) and doesn't increase the vampire's capacity. Similarly, there's also a Trifle, Agent of Power , which is free and confers a temporary level. Given the costs of these two cards, it would suggest this card would be a Master action and cost a pool.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a particular fan of Sanguine Instruction because if anything, it should not teach only within the same clan. And also because it's an action. And, at only one stealth, can fairly easily be blocked. A Master card version would be far better (e.g. "Choose two vampires that you control, one of which has with a superior discipline that the second vampire does not: put this card on the second vampire. They gain a level of the chosen discipline and their capacity increases by one").
However there's already a bloodlines !Salubri Master card: Blooding by the Code (not forgetting some equipment like Amulet of Temporal Perception ) so it looks like there was intention for there to be bloodline Master cards for the disciplines. Obviously if the development team has a limited number of card slots, a single Master card is more appealing than several clan-specific Master cards though.
Last edit: 19 Apr 2016 17:22 by chrisn101.
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