Submission : Xanatos Gambit

666Raziel wrote:

I have no doubt that the HoS' prey will have a though time. But is that enough to ensure you GW ?


If the goal of the incoming set is to boost , I think they should really have cards that only them can play.
A +1 bleed/+1 stealth card will most certainly benefit to everyone else but them.

Could go combo nagaraja already have stealth n bleed. Lady Constancia barely qualifies as a Giovanni, etc. Like a bloodline Como, with a NEC, aus nec , and AUS NEC effect, the top being +1 stealth, +1 bleed, and one mill or something.

You know, I should love milling. After all, I love alternate win conditions in games, and long ago when I played Magic, I love milling people. But I hate it in VTES. Why? What's the big difference? It all comes down to two factors. First, VTES is a multiplayer game, so milling is inherently a worse strategy (once you finish with one player, you have to start with the next and your prey hasn't been helping you towards your unusual strategy). Second, and far more importantly, it doesn't actually oust your prey, meaning that a milling strategy is likely to get a player to the point where they are still in the game, but can't do more than bleed for 1 or hunt because they don't have any cards. The fact that you are still in the game but your options have been stripped is a terrible thing. If you got ousted once somebody else drained your options, then it wouldn't be so bad.

My game philosophy is that anything that actively seeks to decrease the fun that another player gets should be avoided. (To elaborate a bit more - being ousted is unfun but part of the game, being in the game but having no ability to impact the game in any way... that's different.) The forums indicate that I hold a minority opinion, but I still think the designers should think twice about helping systems designed to take options away from other players.

I love milling in games where you don't expect to play all of your cards and where you have one opponent and where you win by milling them out - Magic, UC!, et al.

I hate milling in other games for precisely the reason you mention. Cards are put into decks to be played. The play of the card may not be what you expect because of other people's plays, but to take the cards away (hand destruction has the same problem) is depriving of someone of a core benefit of the idea of deckbuilding.

Also, while elegant and reasonably intuitive, I always hated the philosophy of the CCGs that were predicated on milling as the primary way you won. WotC went to this well a lot and so did Magic clones. It produces some kind of weird incentives when it comes to card draw, but I'm getting off topic.

brettscho wrote:

[...] My game philosophy is that anything that actively seeks to decrease the fun that another player gets should be avoided. (To elaborate a bit more - being ousted is unfun but part of the game, being in the game but having no ability to impact the game in any way... that's different.) The forums indicate that I hold a minority opinion, but I still think the designers should think twice about helping systems designed to take options away from other players.

I second your point of view on milling in V:tES.