file [Submission] Shadow Clone

29 Oct 2017 13:19 - 29 Oct 2017 13:19 #84043 by Bloodartist
I am not fond of this idea in general. I feel that its better to make decent standalone allies and retainers rather than something like this which has a chance of creating, rules problems, broken situations and/or lots of rules clarifications in the card text itself.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 29 Oct 2017 13:19 by Bloodartist.

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30 Oct 2017 11:24 #84051 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic [Submission] Shadow Clone
On the other hand, I'm a fan of the thematics of this card. It shares the same flavor space with Shadow Twin, and thus I'm not sold on it being integrated into other disciplines. Chimestry is not that far fetched for sure, but there's nothing wrong with Obtenebration as such. The theme works.

The effect is pretty cool as well. The thing is though, as others have pointed out, that it's instantly comparable to Entrancement and Far Mastery. This is effectively a weaker version of either, I'm sure everyone agrees (and both are cards that Lasombra have easy access to).

Having a secondary effect is what could be done. That's usually incentive enough to put multiple copies in a deck. As this card shines when spammed, as opposed to the steal effects, having (even a minor) secondary effect could be nice to make it not a dead card in non-ally tables.

Other would be making it able to target your own allies as well, but with further restrictions. It's not a complete clone - rather it only copies stats, but blanks the text. Or, it copies all the text, but reverts all stats (Strength, Life, Bleed) to 1. Or anything in between.

Many ally copy cards, and some allies, have the text that it can't gain any life. You could add that as balance as well.

I would probably prefer to add a blood cost and a secondary effect. Maybe for inferior. I think Jblacey has a good direction.

Shadow Clone
:action:
1 :blood:
+1 Stealth (D) action
:obt: Attach to a ready minion. The next time this minion would unlock, burn Shadow Clone instead of unlocking him or her.
:OBT: Choose an ally [controlled by another methuselah if you will]. If successful, that ally does not unlock as normal as long as Shadow Clone is in play. Put this card in play as a copy of that ally (it does not contest), with [restrictions of your choosing].

That way the inferior does not share space with just a better Mind Numb in a better discipline.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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30 Oct 2017 13:28 - 30 Oct 2017 13:28 #84053 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic [Submission] Shadow Clone
That captures well the flavor. The idea was to have a shadow Doppleganger impersonating some ally. Adding a different inferior effect may do the trick.

Shadow Clone
:action:
1 :blood:
+1 stealth action.
:obt: (D) Put this card on a ready unlocked minion, and lock that minion. During the attached minion's untap phase, burn this card instead of unlocking the attached minion.
:OBT: (D) Lock a ready ally controlled by another Methuselah, and put this card in play; it becomes a copy of that ally with 1 life that does not contest that ally. That ally does not unlock as normal during its unlock phase.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 30 Oct 2017 13:28 by Ankha.

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30 Oct 2017 23:30 #84057 by ScoundrelAtHeart

That captures well the flavor. The idea was to have a shadow Doppleganger impersonating some ally. Adding a different inferior effect may do the trick.

Shadow Clone
:action:
1 :blood:
+1 stealth action.
:obt: (D) Put this card on a ready unlocked minion, and lock that minion. During the attached minion's untap phase, burn this card instead of unlocking the attached minion.
:OBT: (D) Lock a ready ally controlled by another Methuselah, and put this card in play; it becomes a copy of that ally with 1 life that does not contest that ally. That ally does not unlock as normal during its unlock phase.


This looks specific and interesting enough to me.

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Prince-ID: 615

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01 Nov 2017 07:19 - 01 Nov 2017 07:20 #84071 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic [Submission] Shadow Clone
So, what are your thoughts on this as is being just a more powerful Mind Numb from a discipline that isn't that tap&bleed oriented but stealth and tricks?

I mean sure, if that's what's aimed at, but I'd take a look at the power just to avoid creep. Remove either the lock effect, the persistent lock effect, something something?

As it's written, the shadow clone of Black Spiral Buddy and Renegade Garou regenerate up to 3 life (or if they don't I don't seem to understand VtES rules templating as well as I should like). Shadow clone Ossian gains life.

I'd kinda like to see the text "cannot gain life; all life gained is lost" here. Not basing it on any balancing, but flavor.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

garourimgazette.wordpress.com/
www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines
Last edit: 01 Nov 2017 07:20 by Kraus.

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01 Nov 2017 07:58 #84074 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic [Submission] Shadow Clone

As it's written, the shadow clone of Black Spiral Buddy and Renegade Garou regenerate up to 3 life (or if they don't I don't seem to understand VtES rules templating as well as I should like). Shadow clone Ossian gains life.

Well, you'd be lucky to play with gentlemen of taste that play Black Spiral Buddy in their decks :D

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Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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