Submission: Victrix

LivesByProxy wrote:

I would say:
When a minion opposing Victrix in combat strikes with a melee weapon, Victrix may copy that strike as her strike and prevent the opposing minion's damage from that strike. This does not count toward Victrix's additional strike limit.

Or if you want to get really fancy:
When a minion opposing Victrix in combat strikes with a melee weapon, Victrix may copy that strike as her strike and dodge, with an additional strike this round. This does not count toward Victrix's additional strike limit.

I think thats pushing it too far, along with too many moving parts. I try to come up with simple abilities that enable multitude of card synergies, in this case combat cards.

Her real strength is the ability to play forced march for untap, and if she would get superior celerity, then instant transform as well. Coupled with Thing I think this is quite strong. Because of this reason I don't consider her overcosted at all. Note that there is Rosa Hernandez who has empty textbox but has superior celerity, at 7 cap. Is that overcosted? (I'd like to see her as cardboard version too btw)

This is the issue I have with celerity being mainly the domain of !gangrel: !Gangrel can't benefit from gangrel revel, ritual challenge or Thing, among many other things. Maybe its intentional weakness, but I'd like to see more synergies along with untaps. A great way to push gangrel forward would be to give them more celerity. It would also improve their combat a lot, seeing that in lore they are considered some of the more dangerous combatants.

Bloodartist wrote:

I think thats pushing it too far, along with too many moving parts. I try to come up with simple abilities that enable multitude of card synergies, in this case combat cards.

I made those suggestions because you said the intention was for her to dodge and prevent the damage to herself.

Also the point was that she can dodge/prevent the damage herself, and the enemy minions strike still resolves against them. I find that its difficult to word this effect in a different way. It would probably mean that she has to take damage, in order to give the damage back. This was not my intention.

As much as I think that the wording "copy opposing minion's strike" is cool and unique, and would offer new potential design space, I have to wonder why you wouldn't just say: Victrix can strike: steal a weapon, with an additional strike. This does not count towards her additional strike limit.

BTW, the whole "copy a strike" seems very MTG to me, which is not a bad thing. Also, could we use the new keyword "(limited)" on additional strike cards? So you could play multiple additional strike cards / effects as long as they don't say "(limited)".

When you speak of lore the !Gangrel are known as City Gangrel; Cel, Obf, Pro. The Gangrel have Ani,For,Pro. Both are beastly discipline spreads in the tabletop and larp rpg games. I think thematically both variants represent the clan well

LivesByProxy wrote:

As much as I think that the wording "copy opposing minion's strike" is cool and unique, and would offer new potential design space, I have to wonder why you wouldn't just say: Victrix can strike: steal a weapon, with an additional strike. This does not count towards her additional strike limit.

I guess that's a more solid way of doing what I intended. With the relatively major negative side that then it doesn't work against guns at long range like it does originally.

Thin_Blood wrote:

When you speak of lore the !Gangrel are known as City Gangrel; Cel, Obf, Pro. The Gangrel have Ani,For,Pro. Both are beastly discipline spreads in the tabletop and larp rpg games. I think thematically both variants represent the clan well

I know. In the lore city gangrel are mainly sabbat (I don't remember reading good reasons why, though). My concerns are mainly for gameplay reasons. Gangrel stand to gain so much from celerity, yet lore denies them that.

Bloodartist wrote:

The purpose of the wording was the flavor that she uses that same weapon against the enemy in combat. If enemy strikes with a deer rifle + dragons breath rounds, they also take the agg damage. If they strike with a Rowan ring (lol) the enemy minion also goes to torpor.

Also the point was that she can dodge/prevent the damage herself, and the enemy minions strike still resolves against them.

With a special in plain sight, things like "Haha, you take 2 agg damage too!" will almost never be anywhere near as exciting as you think. The other Methuselah can see the special and, assuming they haven't been licking any lead-based paint recently, will plan accordingly. If they can't deal with the two agg damage of DBR, they won't play it - they'll just send you to torpor with additional strikes, and plan to have enough blood to survive, or sacrifice that vampire and follow it up with a rescue action, or whatever else.