lightbulb Introducing Nictuku and Wights into the game

18 Jul 2018 11:53 #88942 by Brum
Indeed. I might have not been clear.
I agree with that early vision (although I would make Gargoyles Masters or 'embrace' like cards for the Tremere).

I didn't know VtES at the time.
And I wasn't as involved in the international scene in 2009, but turning bloodlines into mainstream stereotypes is not something I like much.
Its personal taste and opinion, so it's worth only the bits in memory this message occupies.

What I like is seeing Angela Preston supporting Toreador or Ventrue tap n bleed or a few Kiasyd helping out Lasombra.
If it turns them more competitive. :)

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19 Jul 2018 22:43 #89083 by ReverendRevolver
Strongly against nictuku as minions, "wights" could be owner hopping masters like coven. But not interesting enough IMO.

Wassail should be a card. Like an empty vamp in combat gets it played on them. Enter combat with another random vampire, they get +2 strength and first strike that combat and other minion gets no initial strike. If the go to torpor, wassailing vamp can diablerize and gain a blood.
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20 Jul 2018 01:28 - 20 Jul 2018 01:31 #89088 by Ratadin
Uhm probably Nictuku are too big and focused to make sense as a real vampire card. It could be made as one of those "anti-clan" master, though. Useless, but fun to see when you are browsing amaranth.

The shadow of the Nictuku
Master out-of-turn
Play whenever a minion you control sends a Nosferatu or Nosferatu Antitribu to torpor. Playable during your own turn.
Burn both minions, lock all Nosferatu and Nosferatu Antitribu and put this card in play. Nosferatu and Nosferatu antitribu don't unlock as normal; instead, their controller can pay 1 pool to unlock that minion.

Illustration: A regular human turning into a twisted, smiling shadow, while facing a terrified nosferatu.

The wight idea as a coven seems pretty cool too, although I'm fond of the idea of implementing something like the "beast" keyword to denote those lost vampires. Still...

Wandering Wight
1 :pool:
At the start of your minion phase, burn 2 pool or deal 2 unpreventable damage to a minion you control. During your discard phase, your predator takes control of this card. Any minion can burn this card as a (D) action that costs 2 blood.
Last edit: 20 Jul 2018 01:31 by Ratadin.

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01 Aug 2018 23:57 - 01 Aug 2018 23:58 #89531 by Arthur Volts
By the time of Gehenna, most of the most Ancient vampires were up in some regard, even if it was only through astral manipulation etc. Troile was salted in the ground. Cappadocius was pretty much a wraith or the rest of him being housed in a wax vessel. It is thought that Ventrue/Veddartha was lost long ago, "Nosferatu" was trying to launch nukes at Arikel, but you can't really trust anything in the RP books. Each clan book is essentially propaganda.

I see no problem with VTES introducing any vampire personality it wants, but some may require special attention. For example, if the Nictuku want to be put in, an expansion with the Inconnu as well, treating them like their own "sect". So a string of cards that only they can use. The Nictuku were exceptionally powerful due to their age and activity. Perhaps some of the most active kindred in existence.

Perhaps an "ANCIENT" bold trait which carries with it a handful of rules. Like, aggravated damage being treated as normal. Ancients can't enter combat with non ancient vampires as a D action. This ANCIENT trait could be used to go back and give out a handful of advanced crypt cards. I know Augustus needs one, Ur-Shulgi, hell, quite a lot of 10-11 caps need one.

This game carries some heavy suspension of disbelief and it is required. If Smudge manages to get Ur-Shulgi in his mouth, we have to tell ourselves that Ur was rather exposed. The card game can only communicate expectations so well.
Last edit: 01 Aug 2018 23:58 by Arthur Volts.

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02 Aug 2018 16:10 #89547 by ReverendRevolver
The issue is in power levels,

Antideluvians are too much to accurately put on a card, with the exceptions of the ones too weakened to be on par with others.

Augustus didn't get all of his Sires soul, so hes not as mighty as Capadoccious would be.

Tremere and Saulot aren't in their own bodies, the cards portray them new to complete control of the body they're in.

Most 11caps are methuselah level vamps, so we are already suspending disbelief that the player methuselah is powerful enough to control other Methuselahs, but the true issue with Nictuku is they are bound to Absimiliard too thoroughly to make sense that a Methuselah could control them completely. Now, of course a methuselah could manipulate and point a Nictuku at a target, be it another methuselah or a Nosferatu, but not to the point of complete control.

Wights aren't really controllable in traditional sense, so while an ancient vampire could personally overcome them, potentially use considerable powers to bend them Into a a vaguely directable weapon, it wouldn't be much. They're too consumed by the beast to be dominated and presenced into anything, but there are many means of manipulating and directing one vamps beast.
So showing these as master cards is appropriate, but they aren't minions.
Antideluvians whi have been playing the game from the onset may be able to have their childer manipulated, but The Eldest Shaper, Set, Haquim, etc are beyond fully controlling.
Now, many camps that are relatively old children of the third generation SHOULD be 11caps (Demdemeh, 5of7 of sets known childer are 10 caps, and Sutek is poor representation of set, more likely he is a 4-5 gen, mictulanchuli by diablery, cyscek.... I'm sure there's more)

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