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[Submission/Discussion]: Shortcut (Celerity +Stealth/+Intercept)
07 Oct 2018 06:33 #91016
by LivesByProxy
Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean
until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex
, Obfuscate
, or Potence
for the current action.
Shortcut
+2 stealth if the action is directed at a Location another Methuselah controls.
+3 intercept if the action is directed at a Location you control.
So this is a conditional +stealth/+intercept card for Celerity, which has traditionally had a few conditional +intercept cards, and some actions that come with innate +stealth. I think the game needs more of these to differentiate cards thematically. There seem to be so many cards that give the same minor stat boosts and/or maneuvers and presses but with no significant mechanical / thematic difference. They come in different combinations and might cost blood, or have conditionals that don't convey any sort of flavor to me like "Don't replace this card until after the action / discard phase." but I don't think that's enough. And I think the majority of the card pool follows this kind of design and might be a detractor to potential new players. Also, if the cards were more conditional like the above, they could afford to be more powerful (hence the +2/+3 bonus.)




So this is a conditional +stealth/+intercept card for Celerity, which has traditionally had a few conditional +intercept cards, and some actions that come with innate +stealth. I think the game needs more of these to differentiate cards thematically. There seem to be so many cards that give the same minor stat boosts and/or maneuvers and presses but with no significant mechanical / thematic difference. They come in different combinations and might cost blood, or have conditionals that don't convey any sort of flavor to me like "Don't replace this card until after the action / discard phase." but I don't think that's enough. And I think the majority of the card pool follows this kind of design and might be a detractor to potential new players. Also, if the cards were more conditional like the above, they could afford to be more powerful (hence the +2/+3 bonus.)









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08 Oct 2018 02:11 - 08 Oct 2018 02:12 #91034
by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic [Submission/Discussion]: Shortcut (Celerity +Stealth/+Intercept)
I'm pretty sure I'd never play this. Which is saying something, because I currently run Horrific Countenance and TTS Minion ina deck, Heart of Darkness and Skin of Adder in another, and Routinely use Masochism, Atonement, and Lokis Gift. But I digress:
I use alot of celerity, but in a regular game, this card would only EVER be used to steal PB Monty or a Rack. So its never see play for me.
If it was less stealth but worked only on a D action directed at a minion, I'd play it. Heck, locked vampire or an ally and its be better.
I like the idea of severely limiting what it's used for instead of adding cost or DNR, but I see no need to take actions against Monty or Rack that I cant otherwise get with stealth (or, more often, I'm letting them pick losing a constant source of blood/pool or losing a minion to my combat if I'm playing
) it's too good on bleed or politics, because they are a real win condition, but since combat is means to a means to winning I'd say it's more playable on actions directed at a minion.
I use alot of celerity, but in a regular game, this card would only EVER be used to steal PB Monty or a Rack. So its never see play for me.
If it was less stealth but worked only on a D action directed at a minion, I'd play it. Heck, locked vampire or an ally and its be better.
I like the idea of severely limiting what it's used for instead of adding cost or DNR, but I see no need to take actions against Monty or Rack that I cant otherwise get with stealth (or, more often, I'm letting them pick losing a constant source of blood/pool or losing a minion to my combat if I'm playing

Last edit: 08 Oct 2018 02:12 by ReverendRevolver.
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08 Oct 2018 07:48 #91039
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic [Submission/Discussion]: Shortcut (Celerity +Stealth/+Intercept)
By issuing wallpaper cards?I think the game needs more of these to differentiate cards thematically.
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08 Oct 2018 18:05 #91047
by LivesByProxy
Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean
until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex
, Obfuscate
, or Potence
for the current action.
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic [Submission/Discussion]: Shortcut (Celerity +Stealth/+Intercept)
I meant more cards with a unique condition attached, like what Black Chantry did with the Lost Kindred bleed cards Inevitability of the Void and Release the Hounds. A few other cards follow this model, but a fair bit of the card pool seems to rely on blood costs or "do not replace" or "only 1 may be played" or "only usable when the action is announced" or mixing and matching inferior and superior effects, which is not enough IMO.
When I made this card, I imagined a meta that had more emphasis on Locations and interaction with Locations. Currently there are 157 Locations in the game, and maybe two dozen ever see regular play? Is that an accurate estimate? If this card is wall-paper despite the effect being so strong, because the condition makes it seem narrow or corner-case, that indicates to me that what could be (should be) a major part of this game (Locations) is an under-used area of the game, and that the majority of Locations are wall-paper cards. Is that wrong?
When I made this card, I imagined a meta that had more emphasis on Locations and interaction with Locations. Currently there are 157 Locations in the game, and maybe two dozen ever see regular play? Is that an accurate estimate? If this card is wall-paper despite the effect being so strong, because the condition makes it seem narrow or corner-case, that indicates to me that what could be (should be) a major part of this game (Locations) is an under-used area of the game, and that the majority of Locations are wall-paper cards. Is that wrong?









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08 Oct 2018 18:34 - 08 Oct 2018 18:38 #91048
by TwoRazorReign
That's like saying that equipment is an underused part of the game because Anonymous Freight is wallpaper.
Locations generally see a lot of play, so locations being important is not at the core of why this card is wallpaper. The card is wallpaper because stealth conditional upon an action other than bleeding or voting and intercept conditional upon blocking one specific action are not very useful in most decks. See Deadliest Sin and why that has been the butt of so many jokes over the years. If the idea was to incorporate into the game useful effects interacting with locations, the proposed card is a swing and a miss.
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic [Submission/Discussion]: Shortcut (Celerity +Stealth/+Intercept)
When I made this card, I imagined a meta that had more emphasis on Locations and interaction with Locations. Currently there are 157 Locations in the game, and maybe two dozen ever see regular play? Is that an accurate estimate? If this card is wall-paper despite the effect being so strong, because the condition makes it seem narrow or corner-case, that indicates to me that what could be (should be) a major part of this game (Locations) is an under-used area of the game, and that the majority of Locations are wall-paper cards. Is that wrong?
That's like saying that equipment is an underused part of the game because Anonymous Freight is wallpaper.
Locations generally see a lot of play, so locations being important is not at the core of why this card is wallpaper. The card is wallpaper because stealth conditional upon an action other than bleeding or voting and intercept conditional upon blocking one specific action are not very useful in most decks. See Deadliest Sin and why that has been the butt of so many jokes over the years. If the idea was to incorporate into the game useful effects interacting with locations, the proposed card is a swing and a miss.
Last edit: 08 Oct 2018 18:38 by TwoRazorReign.
The following user(s) said Thank You: lionel
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09 Oct 2018 03:48 #91056
by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic [Submission/Discussion]: Shortcut (Celerity +Stealth/+Intercept)
Its gotta DO something useful to not be wallpaper. If its primary function is to sleeve with a pdf card in front of it, its not great.
Locations aren't unplayed, but most actions against them are. Arson SUCKS. It sucks because New Management is a better action, Unnatural Disaster is a better location burner, and all are contingent upon relevant targets being played by other people.
does one thing great and another reliably: combat or pair with
or
to multiact. So stealth to rush is relevant. The concept is only flawed because it gives stealth on such a not good action. If it worked only on one of these I stead of location directed, it would be better:
An action targeting a minion.
A carded bleed action.
The first non-mandatory action of a turn.
-intercept when ally or younger vampire is attempting to block.a D action
You get the idea.
Locations aren't unplayed, but most actions against them are. Arson SUCKS. It sucks because New Management is a better action, Unnatural Disaster is a better location burner, and all are contingent upon relevant targets being played by other people.



An action targeting a minion.
A carded bleed action.
The first non-mandatory action of a turn.
-intercept when ally or younger vampire is attempting to block.a D action
You get the idea.
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