Vehicles

@LivesByProxy

I was told by another player in 2009ish that he was thinking about not running Dots for awhile because it kept getting contested. I proceeded to up my count to 3 copies in Malk'94 and KS decks. It was a meta choice. Actually contesting a given card frequently is a condition of people playing the same cards too much. And the reward for not. Ever contested the Sun-Pharoah or Bindusara? Its additive to the game, and in a world with a nerfed Pentex(and Una, citadel...), deck building considerations have shifted slightly again.

I'd MUCH rather see cards with similar premises as Keep it simple or Victim of Habit than Democretis. I'd take it further in the penalizing department, benefit other players, etc. But contesting as an oust mechanism is as promising design space as clan hosers. (This last sentence was designed to be written in an as of yet uninvented font known as Sarcastica Sans MS)

Vehicles have a few playable cards. Mostly a miss. Ditto with havens. If you study enough "misses" and dissect what made them fail, you can see correlations. Bindusara has an ability that =bunches of words and little utility. Same with several vehicles. Compare Bindusara to Gotsdam (one of my favorites ever...) lots of words, good utility. Cool. Now compare Ambulance to Sportsbike. Am I likely to want 1 intercept? God yes, sign me up. Do I want to spend a pool? Yes if bowl isn't an option.
Or
Do I think I will routinely be in a situation where I take an action, get blocked, and can reasonably continue it and not just get blocked again? Or maybe I wanted to kill some imbued?

Vehicles aren't great. If Repo Man was non-unique, vehicles would still not be great. Best hope for them is a vamp with a cool special that gets bikes and hawgs or something, free out of your deck.

Niche and playable is more worth looking at than broad and unplayable.
I think the reason behind most ideas is to broaden the scope of what is playable and viable to enhance the game. I'm seeing shortcomings in the parts to di with execution. Not much is truly viable when working with existing cards that aren't all that viable unless it removes one of the barriers to viability, in this case taking a card in the deck, the equip action, pool cost, limited utility, and often built in burn options and drawbacks make most vehicles "meh".
I love seeing new ideas. I love them more when they consider these factors and we can jump to the mid-conversation part where Jamez weighs in on the balance piece and I get stumped.

LivesByProxy wrote:

narpassword wrote:

No single card is a "win condition." A win condition is the series of steps that you plan to take in order to win the game.

Eg: bleeding multiple times with a delivery method.

I imagine you're fun at a tourney.

Me: "Hey Narpass, is that a new deck?"
Narpass: "Yeah! I built it last night, swept two tables so far."
Me: "Cool! What's your win-con?"
Narpass: "Reducing my prey to 0 pool."



Seriously though, you're being unhelpfully pedantic. I know what a win-con is. For clarity, in case some people still don't get it:

LivesByProxy wrote:

If your prey is at 2 pool, and I play Rewilding targeting any Location they control, they are ousted, yes? Am I missing something?

.

whatever dude - you were asserting this as 'a win condition' dont call me out on being pedantic if youre just saying shit wrong.

LivesByProxy wrote:

If your prey is at 2 pool, and I play Rewilding targeting any Location they control, they are ousted, yes? Am I missing something?

In all fairness: I had completely forgotten rewilding actually burns 2 pool from the owner. I remembered it only burned the location. I stand corrected It could be considered a wincon, but an unreliable one since you have no control over whether your prey actually runs locations.

Next step should be BCP printing rewilding AND the Thing in cardboard form..

Bloodartist wrote:

Next step should be BCP printing rewilding AND the Thing in cardboard form..

Three votes in favor.

Bloodartist wrote:

Next step should be BCP printing rewilding AND the Thing in cardboard form..

Is there any good (!) deck utilizing this cards?

elotar wrote:

Bloodartist wrote:

Next step should be BCP printing rewilding AND the Thing in cardboard form..

Is there any good (!) deck utilizing this cards?

Yes. Weenie Gangrel with computer hacking is a proper thing.

About the proposed Vehicles, I think that these are closer to fitting the game than most of your ideas. I see the idea behind the Armored Truck, and with sufficient balancing it could be considered. Just make sure, from here on (I'd argue), to design these cards so that they won't have lingering effects of more than one turn. VTES games are super fast, as they should be. Games last for 6-10 rounds, usually. Having immunity to being ousted for 3 turns is practically the whole game, especially if you can spam it. I'm not 100% against the idea (only 95%), but realities come into play with these cards.

In other news:

Discussion is good, as is disagreeing. Giving and taking constructive criticism it difficult at times. However, please take a moment to reconsider your tones, even if someone gets under your skin.

Take a deep breath before continuing.