file Card idea: Metanoia

01 Sep 2011 09:25 - 01 Sep 2011 09:29 #9462 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia

Plus, any type of direct pool gain from action cards is rare, and generally an effect reserved for rares, or very specific sect/cap.

Wrong. See Kindred Spirit, Dark Mirror of the Mind (cap > 8 isn't very specific or rare), Transfer of Power, Legal Manipulations. *Even* if it was the case,does it mean it can't be done? Comparison is good when used to see if the card's power is in line with other cards or the game.


Compared to KS and Legal Manip/Social Charm, this is not a bleed card. You can't use it to gain pool and make your prey loose pool.
Compared to Transfer of Power (a pretty weak card), it's not a referendum (a good thing), but doesn't steal pool.
Compared to Dark Mirror otM or Art Scam etc., it requires some disciplines and requires luck to gain more than 2 pool (need to draw more than 2 master out of 4 cards).
It's a polyvalent, random card, that requires a little bit of intuition.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 01 Sep 2011 09:29 by Ankha.

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01 Sep 2011 09:56 #9463 by Juggernaut1981
Kindred Spirits = +1 Bleed with a gain 1 pool (at superior)
Legal Manipulations = +2 Bleed with a gain 1 pool costing 1 blood
Social Charm = +1 bleed with a gain 1 pool (at superior) for no cost
Dark Mirror = Gain 2 pool as a +1 stealth action with 8+ cap requirements
Transfer of Power = Gain 1 pool from potentially everyone (including cross tables) requiring vote-control or maybe enough table support


The cards it most closely resembles are:
Cull the Herd: Takes out allies and retainers, costs 1 blood, (D) actions any player, gain 1 blood for each ally/retainer discarded
Precision: Name a card, force someone to discard just that card.
Shattering: Chi, Anarch, 1 blood, look at a hand discard one card as a (D) action on any player
Sleight of Hand: Chi, discards equipment only, looks at the whole hand, costs 1 blood
Truth of Blood: Bleed plus discard 1 card if blocked. Aus-Qui which is a relatively rare combination. (3 vampires in G4-5, 2 distinct vampires in G2)
Vaticanation: Trujah

Most of these cards cost a minimum of 1 blood. Most give no secondary benefit like blood or pool gain and any cards that do give secondary benefits are very limited.

So yes, when you compare LIKE cards with like cards, your card is overpowered for its cost.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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01 Sep 2011 10:07 #9465 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia

The cards it most closely resembles are:
Cull the Herd: Takes out allies and retainers, costs 1 blood, (D) actions any player, gain 1 blood for each ally/retainer discarded
Precision: Name a card, force someone to discard just that card.
Shattering: Chi, Anarch, 1 blood, look at a hand discard one card as a (D) action on any player
Sleight of Hand: Chi, discards equipment only, looks at the whole hand, costs 1 blood

Most of these cards cost a minimum of 1 blood. Most give no secondary benefit like blood or pool gain and any cards that do give secondary benefits are very limited.

So yes, when you compare LIKE cards with like cards, your card is overpowered for its cost.

Sure, if you compare it with unplayed crap cards, it's strong. Much stronger than Twisting the Knife too. Shattering is maybe the best card of those, and there's no random part in it. And you can discard a deflection or a master as you want.

Truth of Blood: Bleed plus discard 1 card if blocked. Aus-Qui which is a relatively rare combination. (3 vampires in G4-5, 2 distinct vampires in G2)
Vaticanation: Trujah

Hmm, the only two cards I've seen played. Guess what? They cost nothing. Truth gives bleed. Vacitination shows you the hand of everyone at 3 stealth.

Anyway, I've understood you find it too powerful. Go play KS.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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01 Sep 2011 14:22 #9475 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia
I think someone should properly playtest this card - or at least try it out. :) I think I could, probably... Someone else?

I still think this is one of the better cards Ankha's been conjuring up.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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01 Sep 2011 14:51 #9478 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia

I think someone should properly playtest this card - or at least try it out. :) I think I could, probably... Someone else?

I still think this is one of the better cards Ankha's been conjuring up.

I'd be very glad to see what it gives.
You can print it from here:

www.veknfrance.com/site/IMG/pdf/metanoia.pdf

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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07 Nov 2011 09:28 #13523 by Kraus
Replied by Kraus on topic Re: Card idea: Metanoia
Hello!

I've tried Metanoia out once already in a Serenna the White toolbox with midcap Malkavians from G5, and I'm hoping to get some time to do another run with the deck today. Last time I was trying to oust a Giovanni Location deck, with the guy who gains hand size with every location. I was confronted with a handsize of roughly 15 cards, so taking a pick with metanoia from there was hard as hell, and the card just didn't work too well. Also I was struggling with the lack of stealth in the action.

We all agreed that even in the best case scenario the card isn't really that powerful. What I've been thinking is adding a second card type to choose from for superior level. That would make the card really a bit more plausible, but still not too wondeful compared to Kindred Spirits. Often I found myself looking at 2 reactions, a combat card and an action modifier when I was trying to find masters.

I hope to have more luck with my prey today and make some more observations. Anyways, I really liked the card, and guys around the table were positively interested in it. The power level just wasn't on a desirable level as it is.


Other issues I might have: the deck really isn't spesifically designed for Metanoia. The deck is originally a Haunting/Blood denial wall, and at the moment I'm replacing the blood denial aspect with Metanoia. It might work better in a bleed/toolbox kind of deck with a bit more stealth.

"Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De-Arnise

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