List of cards to ban

manituan wrote:

I only would change Direct Intervention to 1 per game, like giant´s blood.

This is already kind of what Dark Influences does: who is going to spend 1 pool and a master action just to burn a Dark Influences in play?

Adonai wrote:

elotar,

Your proposed bans don't make the game more fun.
Nor do they actually improve strategic game-play.



If you want to ban cards, the tournament rules already allow you do to this, you can prohibit Keepers of Tradition and Heirs to the Blood completely.

I can't prohibit KoT, I'm in love with Mary Ann Blaire

Joscha wrote:

WHAT? YOU are guilty for that misery ? People, we got him.

Well, me and likely plenty others.

The original version of Villein was, IIRC, move exactly 2 blood, put on a guy, hose Minion Tap. Which seemed like a coaster. Then it became move at least 2 blood, put on a guy, hose Minion Tap. Which seemed less good than Minion Tap (i.e. the only excuse to use it was to hose Minion Tap, and if you weren't hosing Minion Tap, it was bad). We kept agitating for it to be some version of the above, but a trifle. We never saw it as a trifle in playtest, but when it hit print, it was a trifle. And apparently too good.

I think if it was exactly what it is now, but said "a minion can only have 1 Villein", it would be perfectly fine. I think if it was exactly what it is now, but said "move exactly 2 blood" (instead of "move at least 2 blood"), it'd be fine. But as it is, it all adds up to a bit too good. Not that it needs banning or anything. But still, it could, for my money, use a tweak (ignoring all the good reasons that errata is probably a bad idea at this point).

bakija wrote:

New Carthage

It as well as great number of other hard to find cards is needed only for special decks. Demand for such cards will be much lower.

2. Fewer cards are no brainers. But a lot of completely innocuous cards are total no brainers.

No brainers are boring.

bakija wrote:

3. This is one that I have sympathy for. But the bar set is pretty high.

Idea for this list is that there is not one reason to ban any card, but only if several of them collide and there are no reasons not to ban.

bakija wrote:

4. Lots of things slow down the game. Ya know what slows down the game infinitely more than any card? People trying to talk their way to victory. If you want to speed up the game? Talk less.

Talking is essential part of the game. Several cards are not.

Villein. But it is easily tweaked ("a minion may only have 1 Villein") and even if it isn't tweaked, I suspect that your feeling about Villein is vastly overstated. You don't need Villein to compete. You don't need Villein to win tournaments, let alone games. Villein is strong. Villein is too strong. Villein is not remotely necessary.

Nessesity to win got no connection with my banning proposal.

Giant's Blood is already self limiting (only 1 can be played per game).

GB is automatic addition to any deck, best way to play it is as soon as you draw it, it's dumb badly designed card.

Meh. Jake is really good in, like, a couple ally based decks (War Ghoul; Diary?). Jake isn't particularly useful in that many other decks, or at least not more than any number of other masters that could take his slot.

I'm not sure with Jake miself. He just is too like GB to me

The Heart is certainly handy. But unique. Easy to block, steal, or destroy, or contest.

This is accesible to all of the decks powerful card. It's just bad when everybody plays with the same cards (or wish to play with them). This is my main argument for DI, PS, DoS.

Oh, I'm totally with you on Parity Shift. It is stupidly overpowered and makes all other votes look pointless.

I'm really not so sure about this one.

Govern isn't a problem. Dominate is a problem. Unless you are going to completely rebuild Dominate?

Em, you think that by banning the best dominate card we are not nerfing whis discipline?

Much like Villein, the case for Ashur Tablets is wildly overstated. They are good. But not necessary and not needed in most decks. If you have them, you can build a deck around them and do well. If you don't, you can build a deck without them and do well.

Ashurs are changing fundamentals of the game (effective number of cards in the library and it's contents). It's fun as a concept, but execution is a painfull and long process.

Wait, what? Wash is the solution to most of the cards on this list. And Wash isn't that good (Sudden is generally a better play). And Wash is limited in who it targets. This one seems way out of left field.

We will need no solution if we ban all problem cards. "Cancel card" is a bad game mechanics, when it's combined with trifle, it olso becomes a no-braner addition. I know that it's not a powerhouse, but it doesn't matter.

Wait a second...Elotar sounds an awful lot like Ector...

By some reason Ector alredy hates me after some discussion in russian forum. Evil must work alone?

List of cards to ban?
None.

elotar wrote:

Ashurs are changing fundamentals of the game (effective number of cards in the library and it's contents).

No they're not.
Card recursion was a concept already in Dark Sovereigns.

I do agree that over the last few years recursion became easier and easier and that this indeed changed the nature of game a bit.

But I also think that Ashurs themselves are balanced.


EDIT: Ah, I so totally agree with Extrala's previous comment!