Proxies and Bigfoot Hunting

Thinking about my own resistance to proxies has made me realize that my main problem with implementing them is that they seem to be a solution in search of a problem. The two arguments I've read in favor of proxies are

1) that allowing them will level the playing field, and
2) that disallowing them will discourage new players from taking up the game.

I'm going to ignore the first one, since it doesn't make sense to me, because I believe that more cards does not equal better decks. With regards to the second, my issue is that the new players that the pro-proxy argument leans on don't seem to actually exist.

For the effort and hassle of allowing proxies to be worthwhile as an improvement to the game, there would need to be

1) significant numbers of new players who
2) are willing to spend the resources to acquire enough cards to play the game, but are unwilling to expend enough resources to also acquire Villeins,
3) who also refuse to play in competitions if they can't play with Villeins, and
4) who can't find anyone willing to lend them Villeins for the length of time it takes to play a tournament.

Are all of these criteria actually being met out in the real world, or is the new player/proxy issue just a hypothetical problem? I realize now that I believe it's the latter, but if people are actually seeing the above four things happening, I'm willing to change my mind based on that evidence.

I'll just throw this out there...

Can we agree that anyone with the means to do so will prefer getting actual Villeins over proxies? Proxies would then only be played by those who need them. If nobody would need them then nobody should be using them. If nobody used proxies what would then be the downside of allowing (a legal form of) proxies?

Suoli wrote:

I'll just throw this out there...

Can we agree that anyone with the means to do so will prefer getting actual Villeins over proxies? Proxies would then only be played by those who need them. If nobody would need them then nobody should be using them. If nobody used proxies what would then be the downside of allowing (a legal form of) proxies?

This seems like a post for the other proxies thread. What does your post have to do with whether or not there are real-life new players out there who can't get Villeins and refuse to play in competition without them?

The only purpose of this humble thread is to ascertain whether or not these mythical (in my experience) beasts actually exist.

Kushiel wrote:

Suoli wrote:

I'll just throw this out there...

Can we agree that anyone with the means to do so will prefer getting actual Villeins over proxies? Proxies would then only be played by those who need them. If nobody would need them then nobody should be using them. If nobody used proxies what would then be the downside of allowing (a legal form of) proxies?

This seems like a post for the other proxies thread. What does your post have to do with whether or not there are real-life new players out there who can't get Villeins and refuse to play in competition without them?

The only purpose of this humble thread is to ascertain whether or not these mythical (in my experience) beasts actually exist.

I guess I'm questioning whether it makes any difference if they exist for the purposes of allowing or not allowing proxies. It's just a thought. I'll shut up now.

Kushiel wrote:

Are all of these criteria actually being met out in the real world, or is the new player/proxy issue just a hypothetical problem?

I have been viewing it as a hypothetical problem. I do not personally know a significant amount of new players that have been discouraged from playing because of the perceived problem.
That is no reason not to be discussing the issue of proxies. They do not have to be implemented tomorrow. Perhaps in a couple of years if there is a problem, then some legal manner of reprinting Villein(or the like) could be realised.