How I would re-launch V:TES. (audience participation is encouraged)

When two players are contesting star vampires/important cards, we are not only screwing game for them (which is not so good either, cause it happens not only with Lutz, but also with, i don't know - Bakr, if two players on the table desided to be "creative"), but also for other three players, cause somebody will be playing without predator, somebody will got undeserved VP and pool and somebody will got crippled cross-table buddies.

For a game of 2+ hours such effect of some random draw at the beginning of the game is terrible.

Degenerated strategies like pooting aranthebes into weenie deck to contest, or pentex or smth like it are olso kinda not so fun.

Idea of paying pool for contest but not loosing the ability to use contested cards looks kind of good.

But in general I think we'll have as much opinions as we have active members, so this discussion is not very meaningful.

i don't really understand the hate for contest rules. in the last fifteen games i've played, i've seen exactly one contest of a library card, and I can't say that I have a memory where I've seen vampires contest. Does it really come up that often? if it does, what's your local meta like?

Sometimes, you get Rochambeau'd by table seating; your prey has a deck that is perfectly designed to handle everything that you can throw at it.

I agree that Vampire contests almost never happen, but that doesn't mean we should allow a rule that ruins games in the rare cases that it does. Imagine a rule that at the beginning of every game, each player had to roll a 1000 sided die, and if it come up 1, you weren't allowed to play the game, but you were forced to sit there for 2 hours. That is an extreme example, but if that rule is bad, why is the vampire contest rule ok?

Also, this will become of greater concern if the relaunch of the game is not completely compatible with the current game. If we start with a Jyhad sized set, I'd expect to see many more contests of vampires.

Personally, I would advocate to leave contests in, but (as I mentioned before) simply have it blank out the rules box of that vampire - no special rule, no titles, no downsides. The box is treated as empty. But once somebody stops paying 1 pool per turn, the other vampire regains their text (either instantly or during their untap phase). That allows you to still check the power of vampires like Anson without totally screwing over the contesting players.

I like the random element caused by contestations. It causes you to adapt.

If another player brings out a vampire that you were about to bring out, you can use that to your advantage by contesting the vampire at a more strategic point. Yes, it may cost you pool in terms of defence, and pace in terms of influence — however I've seen it used to great effect mid game.

It's a mechanic that rewards diversity and also increases diversity in terms of game play.

brettscho wrote:

Imagine a rule that at the beginning of every game, each player had to roll a 1000 sided die, and if it come up 1, you weren't allowed to play the game, but you were forced to sit there for 2 hours.

This analogy is very good.