Defense Vs Fatty Vampire Bloat?

And then there is the good ol' ultraviolence as well.

The favored fattie trick nowadays is Zillah -> fattie out, Zillah, Villein -> another fattie out. Rinse and repeat.

When you smack the fattie up (puch 'em inna face, kick 'em inna stomach) they do not take back the invested blood and it kinda grinds down to a halt. It is kinda the same idea as having 6-8 Sudden Reversals in the deck.

All of the above seconded.

Also, whenever fatties get into torpor, diablerize without prejudice! You don't have to rescue from crosstable if a Villein'd fattie gets smacked down. Many big-cap decks have insane recovering abilities, even if it looks bad for them at that moment.

Villein should be banned or reworded into "Put this card on a vampire you control and move 2 or more blood from that vampire to your pool. Minion Tap cards cost you an additional pool. Villein costs an additional pool to play on this vampire."

But somehow gameplay "Zillah - 1 turn rush window - Villein, Zillah ..." mentioned earlier is somehow important for "powers" so we are continuing to suffer it.

There have been plenty of different ways to try and rebalance villein. Banning liliths blessing was obvious.

I would rather see villein as is, but always move a flat 4 or 5 blood (or less if vamp has less blood) to make it more midcappish but still keep it relevant for fatties.

Would take out much of the edge of v+giants blood.

But thats another topic altogether. In the mean time (and for a long time since villein wasnt errated for Anthology) we have to deal with it.

And there are plenty of ways to deal.

I think the question was about how to deal with fatties at the table rather than how to erratta them away.

@kschaefer(I think you're from my area):

Do you remember the old "welcome to Newark"/Heathwood approach? That level of combat cripples overbloat cap n tap strategies still.

At WoN, I took Arika with a graverob. Can't remember if I spirit marionette/DtD to put her there or not, but it's still funny.

I feel the girls style decks are the larger problem, with the current bloat trend being where the meta evolved globally from that.

The larger problem is not everyone can reliably bleed through so much pool, so shutting it down is crucial. Voter cap can be shut down as well, with DI, touch of clarity, and I think denial of Aphrodite favor.
What style are you having most problems with?

elotar wrote:

Villein should be banned or reworded into "Put this card on a vampire you control and move 2 or more blood from that vampire to your pool. Minion Tap cards cost you an additional pool. Villein costs an additional pool to play on this vampire."

But somehow gameplay "Zillah - 1 turn rush window - Villein, Zillah ..." mentioned earlier is somehow important for "powers" so we are continuing to suffer it.

Have you ever thought that maybe gameplay changes are what is needed, and not more errata?

Then again, you are the same guy who wants to ban or remove about 80% of vtes, because of some personal prejudice.