file Time limit variant for finals

07 Dec 2018 22:23 #92302 by lionel
maybe we could test, time have changed, maybe we could have much interesting final tables whith a classement !
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08 Dec 2018 17:18 - 08 Dec 2018 18:56 #92307 by ReverendRevolver

maybe we could test, time have changed, maybe we could have much interesting final tables whith a classement !


Testing is essential.
Problem will be getting a substantial enough pool of results with a broad enough pool of players and decks to have an even remotely scientific sample.

So......

We could test it in 2019 during WoN events on both sides of the pond? Nobody will caught off guard this far in advance. Historically in NA, the later tournaments get a bigger draw, but just an idea.
Edit: I'm talking about the time bonus. Not trading one issue for another with changing final tables "position "
Last edit: 08 Dec 2018 18:56 by ReverendRevolver.

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08 Dec 2018 17:32 - 08 Dec 2018 17:34 #92309 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Time limit variant for finals

maybe we could test, time have changed, maybe we could have much interesting final tables whith a classement !

Both systems have been tested for more than 10 years each, and I am pretty sure we don't want to go back making horrible deals during the final (to split prizes for instance).

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 08 Dec 2018 17:34 by Ankha.
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05 Jan 2019 22:56 #92655 by Yomyael
We did not use the time limit variant in the finals of our tournament today, but I will give a (somewhat estimated) analysis anyhow:

Table order during the final was 1st seed -> 2nd -> 5th -> 3rd -> 4th

Ousting order was: 1st seed, then 4th. 3rd seed won when the table timed out, after the 2nd seed tried to oust the 5th during his last turn. Without the time limit variant, the 3rd seed might have lost this final, if the 5th didn't play a strong enough wall deck to survive the lunge.

However, with the time limit variant, the game probably would not have timed out. Considering discussions during the game and looking at the decks played, the 3rd seed would have won the game with more time on the clock. Thus, for the total outcome of the tournament, the variant would not have changed anything, but still I think it would have felt better to have the game played out.

Prince of Bonn, Germany

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05 Jan 2019 23:51 - 06 Jan 2019 06:04 #92656 by kschaefer

Thus, for the total outcome of the tournament, the variant would not have changed anything, but still I think it would have felt better to have the game played out.


If the preliminary rounds can timeout, then why is it so troublesome that the finals can time out? In other words, why do you feel that would have been better (to play the game to completion)?
Last edit: 06 Jan 2019 06:04 by kschaefer. Reason: Clarity of final question

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06 Jan 2019 13:29 #92662 by Yomyael
The difference in my opinion is, that there are multiple (at least 2, in this case 3) preliminary rounds. Even with 1 or 2 timing out and winning only 1 one can have a spot in the final. So a time out isn't so bad - you have more chances to get a spot in the final.

During the final, everyone is under a lot of pressure and tries to think everything through to the end before taking any action, maybe even discussing a few minutes over possible outcomes before anouncing anything. So, naturally, turns take more time. And there are no further chances. It is that game, that moment, and loosing it because a clock says you have to stop now... I would find that very unsatisfying.

Also, I have seen during preliminary rounds players forfeiting the game a few minutes before the time out, because the other player clearly wins the game and just does not have enough time to do so within the time limit. This will not happen during finals, even though the other player would take the game - sometimes even a few minutes would be enough.

That is what makes the difference for me.

Prince of Bonn, Germany
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