file Remove Decks From TWDA

12 Mar 2020 22:00 #99273 by Kilrauko
Replied by Kilrauko on topic Remove Decks From TWDA

I'm not selfish, I just don't want this discussion lead to the end of TWDA or something like that.


There's little fear for that as for something to end it requires people maintaining and taking part of it to lose their motivation. Or someone actually finding a judge willing to grant that a decklist is intellectual property and then applying it globally. Considering how the TWDA has survived the "end of printing" along with (I think) three main archivist changes by now, it's proven to be quite robust in it's current format. Even if majority of the current playerbase agreed to claim that it's useless and should be removed, it wouldn't prevent further work made on gathering that information as it's volunteer work, only restrict the amount of it gathered as people would protest the tournament deck publication rules. It would look more like the early years but still provide insight on what decks won.

I'm sure there were arguments decades or centuries ago whether or not storing information noted down by Gioachino Greco in crude form had any value. Yet it was maintained there and over the years built up to be of use outside the hobby. Netdecking argument has it's roots in the way people used to share chess openings via snail-mail before internet and how that was seen by some as a "cheap" way as opposed to being a true and self-creating everything from scratch. While not everyone agrees, I'm sure the people taking part in the archival process can extrapolate positive future based on how other similar hobby archives have been created in the history. What's more TWDA provides constant service by inspiring and giving ideas to people using it right now, so we don't even need to believe in some possible future use as motivation. It's just added bonus.

The World at large is moving slowly towards accepting the value of archives and it can be more easily argued nowadays that even the hobby archives have meaning beyond what can be easily observed now thanks to the way chess game archives paved the way for artificial intelligence study and early research. Later Go developments along with others are just continuation and that would be quite different if there was no large archives that help programs teach programs. As more and more "important real life" applications become possible and our future is where programs find working antibiotics along with other things it's important to remember what were the early steps in the ladder. Or not and just choose not to partake in it. Personal freedom and personal rights still exist after all.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

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14 Mar 2020 01:41 #99287 by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Remove Decks From TWDA

I have won a number of events and have submitted zero deck lists through the years. I think creativity is the most important part of these games and is solidly snuffed out by net decking.


Time before decklists were readily available mostly contained a multitude of bad or very bad decks. Because of the availability of tested tournament winning decks (etc) the level of people's decks and play got better. This effect is still valid. It would be folly to undermine it.

Not needing to have everybody trying to reinvent the wheel is a good thing. Especially for the new players!

Not submitting a winning decklist can easily be changed. For example by requiring all finalist to hand over a decklist before the finalists. Or even all attendees.

Or by disqualifying anyone because of unsportsmanlike behavior because refusing to share the decklist with the judge before the finals.


You zee Herr Mewkatze, iff need be, we haff ways und means zu make you divulge informazion! :p

Finnish :POT: Politics!

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14 Mar 2020 02:54 #99289 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Remove Decks From TWDA
Or you could do what you want and I could also. No need to force conformity.

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14 Mar 2020 17:54 #99300 by Arthur Volts
Replied by Arthur Volts on topic Remove Decks From TWDA
We all conform to a system of rules to come together to play any game.
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15 Mar 2020 15:39 #99319 by Mewcat
Replied by Mewcat on topic Remove Decks From TWDA

We all conform to a system of rules to come together to play any game.


Clearly a false equivalence. Following card rulings makes the game functional. Reporting decklists does not.

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15 Mar 2020 17:19 #99324 by Arthur Volts
Replied by Arthur Volts on topic Remove Decks From TWDA
There are more than card rulings that must be obeyed for a gaming community to function.

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