file Fighting Pit Problems

06 Mar 2021 13:02 #101777 by Thalco
Fighting Pit Problems was created by Thalco
I've heard people talk about fighting pits many a time. New players getting a bit obsessed with combat and so other people play combat to counter and now you're just constantly all in torpor.

I've come across it in my paper play group but we mix it up enough that it only lasts a couple weeks and we're back to being diverse again.

However, my online playgroup features a group of players who pretty much exclusively play combat decks. Any advice on how to get real games again? They're all obsessed with burning vampires. I've tried playing decks that avoid combat and just bleed them out, that either ends in a fast and boring table sweep or being the first ousted as everyone's rushes come for you. I've also tried beating them at their own game but that didn't dissuade them either, just made them swap their psyches for acrobatics.

it's making games repetitive and boring and we're losing players as a result.

Any advice is appreciated
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06 Mar 2021 15:27 #101779 by Boris The Blade
There is no magic formula to overcome a 4/1 majority. The normal way for players to grow out of this is to play in a different environment where they are not in the majority anymore.

If that is not an option for your players, then the best you can do is to stop combat from defining your own game by not giving them targets in the first place. Swarm decks are naturally resilient to combat and very frustrating to play against because they do not just beat combat, they make it irrelevant. Legacy of Pander, Ravnos or !Tore Embrace, Shambling,... Khazar is even nastier because it makes their combat work for you.

Those decks present problems that combat decks cannot answer with combat tweaks alone. They will have to think about how to increase their number of actions, how to stealth past the allies to get to the vampires,... i.e. broaden their view of the game. If a player moves from dedicated combat to weenie fight, then it is already a step in the right direction. Soon enough he will be put in situations where he can get an oust while losing the combat game.
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07 Mar 2021 10:27 #101782 by Khaan
Replied by Khaan on topic Fighting Pit Problems
Obedience and mirror walk may work, as they choke on their combat cards with no realiable way of entering combat.

Lackeyname: Kris
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08 Mar 2021 13:05 #101790 by lip
Replied by lip on topic Fighting Pit Problems
Also consider using top-tier decks, The world champion Tupdogs Legionnaires comes into mind, for example: the only targets for rushes are 1-drop Tupdogs burning next turn anyway, and Emerald Legion coming back from the Ash Heap as fast as you kill them...

A more classical Legionnaire deck will probably be a pain too, if it's done properly. But meta adjustments can be made to many decks, like a Lasombra bleed running 18 Nocturns for rush defence or an Unnamed bleed running 4-5 Rotschreck and Swallowed by the Night, or even Shadow Feint. You could also enjoy a good weenie PRE build with 16 Majesty and a number of Mind Numbs, depending on what kind of combat deck they tend to use. As pointed out, any big cap vote/bleed can just run a good number of Obedience / Mental Maze to prevent a combat from even happening,
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08 Mar 2021 19:45 #101797 by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Fighting Pit Problems
Finland approves the choices of you gaming companions!

NC, Finland
Finnish :POT: Politics!
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08 Mar 2021 21:54 #101800 by Kilrauko
Replied by Kilrauko on topic Fighting Pit Problems
Imbued gehenna events deck with plenty memories of mortality and trap combat loop. Show them the true horror of playing combat with Slow withering, Nightmares upon Nightmares, Veil of Darkness and Blood Weakens. Unmasking, Thirst, well, basically all events that hamper their ability to play cards, do actions, cycle hand etc. Remember to drop cryptic hints on how this is *the* combat deck to combat combat deck players and you'll be bringing out a lot as there's a lot of combat playing players out there.

You'll see powerbleed, votes and bounces appear very fast as if for nothing else, to collectively oust you out first before the events cripple everyone. Become the hated target (with moderation, clean fun etc) until you see there's enough saturation and can switch to something else. Instead of discarding to cycle, play events to harm others, learn to love the hand size of two and playing first turns without any minions as easy targets. If the table fights amongst each other, all the more power to you.

If you wish more reasonable and game winning advice, see earlier posts, but remember, sometimes it's not about winning but about sending a message. Nobody really remembers who won random game xyz but humilation will be remembered long and hard. Either by you or to you, hammers the memory all the same.

Seriously tho, if you're losing players, consider adding artificial and understood limitations to keep the game fun for everyone on the table. If there's enough people to lose players while not going down to no 4 player table anymore, consider setting aside a "combat only" table for those that really wish to hammer it out. People drawn to that gameplay are drawn to it leaving the others to more open situation as 3-5 HC combat players are merrily brawling it out on their own. Other way would be to have themed play days, bleed & vote, bruise&wall, toolbox tuesday, free for all friday. Or first game night of the month, second game night etc. in repeating pattern. That way players can prepare and choose, naturally this tends to work best if single table is dedicated to it with free participation, unless the whole group is interested. Either way, communication is key, if you've brought up the fact players are leaving due to lots of combat and nobody takes notice, well, honest question needing an answer is whether or not those players really care about keeping the group alive? It's fine and dandy to rumble among friends, but maintaining open and living group takes group effort from everyone. One person cannot use magic bullet to fix everyone's behaviour.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
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