file Fighting Pit Problems

08 Mar 2021 23:38 #101801 by Kushiel
Replied by Kushiel on topic Fighting Pit Problems

Imbued gehenna events deck with plenty memories of mortality...
 

Encouraging new players to play with banned cards is probably not the way to go.
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09 Mar 2021 11:51 #101810 by Thalco
Replied by Thalco on topic Fighting Pit Problems
Thanks for all your suggestions. Agreed, I will not be including memories of mortality though, haha. 

I told the group that I was fed up and had the choice of either building decks specifically to beat combat or not enjoying the game. After saying I might take a week off, and knowing I organise the games, a few players made a conscious effort to play new deck types which I greatly appreciated.

As mentioned, it's not about the winning, we're talking casual games so who cares. I've been winning a load of games recently because everyone is obsessed with winning the combat and I just focus on ousting. It's just not fun when the games drag on to a draw because nobody has minions in play. Gets stale fast.

I've got my earthmeld deck ready to go if it goes back to a pit and thinking of doing challenges. Maybe not toolbox Tuesday (as catchy as it is) coz then we'll end up with a different meta but still lacking variety. I'll have a think about it though. Maybe just challenge Tuesday, get some ideas flowing on the uk Facebook about it.
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09 Mar 2021 19:03 #101815 by Lönkka
Replied by Lönkka on topic Fighting Pit Problems

Imbued gehenna events deck with plenty memories of mortality...

 

Encouraging new players to play with banned cards is probably not the way to go.
 

Mind of a Child is sorta the light version of this...
But it is tricky toi get it to work and certainly won't work against the whole table.

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09 Mar 2021 19:19 #101816 by Kilrauko
Replied by Kilrauko on topic Fighting Pit Problems

Imbued gehenna events deck with plenty memories of mortality...

 

Encouraging new players to play with banned cards is probably not the way to go.
 


Banned from tournament play. Unless I've missed something where someone else decides what I can and cannot include in my deck to play with my friends. Imho it's quite bizarre to expect new players to know how certain cards are banned when the whole term is not even included in the rulebook and exists as separate related to player association they might not even wish to join for whatever reason. Heck if they actually end up running banned card decks, copying it, they'll find out rock-paper-scissors deckbuilding still works as Fourth Cycle and Uncoiling counter events while !TRE nephandus works wonders against MoM+trap as theft is not damage, Recure of the Homeland is not discipline card and even inferior dom gives massive bleed power compared to imbued. Which in turn gets countered and so forth ad infinum. A Nudge towards moving the meta, if not actually, then at least in the minds as the focus is not how well the combat cycles relative to other combat cycling.

I maintain the viewpoint where best way to introduce players to a concept of "banned cards" is to include one or two of them in otherwise normal but not competitive deck, for flavor, and when it pops up in a situation where you might play it, stop the game and take time to explain to the new guys, what the card is, how it works, why it's banned on tournament usage and ask whether or not they're alright of you using it in that situation. Or if you're feeling bad about that, just discard it automatically at the end of turn and talk the topic that way as the card is "safely" gone. That engages the players to the fact there is history and meaning behind the game, how it has evolved, how tournament play differs from casual and why it's more restricted, how some cards from 1994 are still okay while other "newer" ones might not be. How there is variety and viewpoint differences and perhaps one day they might decide certain cards is not okay and agree that it's not okay for the games they run. Sure you don't do that on the *first* game or even second game where they're learning basic mechanics. But later I do that with card text changes too, sleeving old jyhad Monocle while having newer one outside the deck sleeved to refer for. Gives players deeper hands on understanding as opposed to just handing out latest ban list and text erratas on printout or text file.

Imho among the worst possible ways to go with new players is to teach them to play according to the tournament rules and environment. They should be teached to play according to rulebook, with lots of leeway for errors (provided they're corrected always), and then when they're feeling like it, they can take a dip to the tournament setting with it's quirks, rules and restrictions. V:EKN banned cards being just one piece of that.

But people are different, I'm sure there are some new players who enjoy following the tournament rules from day 1. All the power to them. The important point of my post was about communication, taking and receiving feedback and how nurturing a group is a group effort, not so much running MoM+trap & events or some other silver bullet deck solution. I respect the callout on it and can see where it's coming from, but I will maintain my explained opinion still. If people can point problems with the reasoning, I'm open for it but won't promise that it will change my opinion. Changing a viewpoint takes quite a large effort after all, especially for those of us who have used to the norms on how things are for us.

Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
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10 Mar 2021 00:15 #101818 by kschaefer
Replied by kschaefer on topic Fighting Pit Problems

Imbued gehenna events deck with plenty memories of mortality...


 

Encouraging new players to play with banned cards is probably not the way to go.

 


Banned from tournament play. Unless I've missed something where someone else decides what I can and cannot include in my deck to play with my friends.

This is true, but most playgroups that I am aware of in the US use the banned list, I would expect similar results elsewhere.  While tournament play is actually less important than casual play (there will always be more of the latter), the banned lists helps balance the game over time and most folks that I play with expect casual play to respect that list.
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10 Mar 2021 04:51 #101820 by smeeag
Replied by smeeag on topic Fighting Pit Problems
>The important point of my post was about communication
Approaching with "I don't like your heavy combat-oriented decks, so I will tear you apart using unbalanced banned cards" doesn't looks like communication :)
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