file Is the ‘Go Anarch’ change of sect permanent?

03 May 2022 09:09 #105159 by PaulCrowther
I’ve noticed on VDB a ruling to state that both the ‘Go Anarch’ card and Galarics Legacy cards are permanent changes of sect, but I don’t know if that really makes sense now.

The ruling in question used to refer to the change to independent being permanent but the Anarch status being a temporary effect dictated by the cards.

Now Anarch is the actual sect I’m not sure that’s how it works. So before if you were a camarilla base vampire, played the go anarch card you’d become independent base, if you then played writ of acceptance the go anarch card would burn as per its card text and if the minion ever lost the writ then they’d be independent as per your new overwritten text.

If ‘Go Anarch’ is still deemed to change the base card text to anarch why does it stick around on the board and why would it matter if it burned when the vampire changed sect? It’s effect being permanent.

My reading now that now Anarch is an actual sect is that both go anarch and galarics legacy are temporary effects due to the ‘considered anarch’ line and due to remaining in play. Is this right?

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03 May 2022 09:59 #105160 by Legion
If you've played these cards in any vampire it changes the sect to Anarch.
And the text on both cards are remainder 'This vampire is considered Anarch'. If the vampire change the sect in any way these card are burned.What's the question here?

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03 May 2022 17:37 #105166 by PaulCrowther
It’s important to know if this is a temporary or permanent effect.

So for example Lupo plays go anarch. Base he’s camarilla. He then plays writ of acceptance and is considered camarilla and this causes the go anarch card to burn. He then uses Heidelberg castle to get give the writ of acceptance to another friendly vampire.

What is Lupo’s sect now? He has no cards on him providing any temporary effects. The way I read the cards Lupo is now Camarilla again but the ruling on Go Anarch referring to times before Anarch was a sect imply his sect may now be Anarch.

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05 May 2022 15:58 #105183 by lip
The important part of the ruling (and why it's still here) is that equipping Writ of Acceptance "works" in the sense that the Go Anarch vampire actually changes sect and the Go Anarch card burns (you don't decide which takes precedence between Go Anarch and Writ: the last one takes precedence).

So yes, Lupo's sect is Camarilla. I don't read the ruling as worded now as suggesting he would stay Anarch. But I welcome an updated ruling and / or a new wording proposition

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05 May 2022 19:51 - 05 May 2022 19:54 #105188 by inm8
I think the main question is in regards to what happens to a vampire with Go Anarch if the card is somehow removed (e.g. Cleansing Ritual)?

The being Anarch part used to be "temporary" provided by the card and even so LSJ ruled that it would remain, here.

> Galaric's Legacy
> says the vampire with this card is considered X. Cleansing Ritual
> removes the card, so no effect is still making the vampire X, but
> apparently an effect persists that was only present because of the card
> (by card text) despite the absence of the card.


The above ruling seems off to me as that would mean that a burnt, removed, or moved equipment like Writ of Acceptance would still be making one Camarilla when not on the vampire which we know isn´t correct. Regardless of how this is ruled it doesn´t affect the being Anarch after Go Anarch is just removed...but I think this is what is causing the confusion.

Ankha could you please provide your verdict on the matter (and move the topic to the right section), thanks.
Last edit: 05 May 2022 19:54 by inm8.

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06 May 2022 08:44 #105192 by inm8
An additional question, on the same google group thread regarding this ruling where LSJ says the below, I assume this still stands and still makes Go Anarch a permanent sect change?

The reason for the question is because "This vampire is considered Anarch." used to be a temporary effect of the card as it wasn´t a sect and the text hasn't really changed.
Also until now, I wasn´t aware of the existence of the below mentioned "template" which I'm sure I wasn´t alone about, perhaps it should be added to the rules.

> So, it seems, your criteria for whether a card carries a "temporary"
> change or a "permanent" change is whether it has some sort of clause
> allowing for its removal?
No, not "some sort", but a very specific sort: that is, if the thing
the card sets is changed, remove the card. The sort of thing that
makes the card work like Title cards. (Titles also do not layer.)

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