Finals are boring. Pt. 1: Slow Play
31 Oct 2012 07:32 #40088
by Juggernaut1981




Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Finals are boring. Pt. 1: Slow Play
I'm suggesting that we should give the win to a player who can oust at least 2 players in a final, not just one. Most players who have reached a final should be able to oust a bare minimum of one player.
The secret to winning a final is to always make sure you have 0.5VP more than anyone who is seeded above you. But there is little incentive for a top seed to therefore oust anyone unless they must. Giving the final to the top seed in the event of a tie reduces the motivation for the top seed to be aggressive. Top seeds want ties, because they have an advantage over every other player. Hence why making it so that you have to get half the VPs available or more forces every player to be more aggressive. The Top Seed can no longer rely on people's slower play, or to wall up/bloat up to the point where they are effectively un-oust-able. This change to the rules gives an incentive to a top seed to also be aggressive. It removes the 'king of the hill' scenario.
The secret to winning a final is to always make sure you have 0.5VP more than anyone who is seeded above you. But there is little incentive for a top seed to therefore oust anyone unless they must. Giving the final to the top seed in the event of a tie reduces the motivation for the top seed to be aggressive. Top seeds want ties, because they have an advantage over every other player. Hence why making it so that you have to get half the VPs available or more forces every player to be more aggressive. The Top Seed can no longer rely on people's slower play, or to wall up/bloat up to the point where they are effectively un-oust-able. This change to the rules gives an incentive to a top seed to also be aggressive. It removes the 'king of the hill' scenario.





Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Juggernaut1981
-
- Offline
- Antediluvian
-
Less
More
- Posts: 2376
- Thank you received: 326
31 Oct 2012 07:59 #40092
by KevinM
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
Replied by KevinM on topic Re: Finals are boring. Pt. 1: Slow Play
You keep not addressing the fact that players that aren't good enough to win finals *now* won't be good enough to win finals under your rules, either.
New game, same as the old game.
New game, same as the old game.
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
31 Oct 2012 11:38 #40108
by Ashur
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Replied by Ashur on topic Re: Finals are boring. Pt. 1: Slow Play
I watched two finals at the EC, Day 1 and Day 2.
1. I do not think they were catastrophically boring, although they could have been more exciting.
2. I do not think anyone was slow playing (stalling).
3. I don´t understand why ALL players ever should play slowly in a final. The 4 players that wasn´t 1st seed should play more aggressively, at least until someone is ousted, when the ouster may somewhat focus on defense and slow play, but they the remaining 3 players should play even more aggressively. Or have I misunderstood something fundamentally in this game?
1. I do not think they were catastrophically boring, although they could have been more exciting.
2. I do not think anyone was slow playing (stalling).
3. I don´t understand why ALL players ever should play slowly in a final. The 4 players that wasn´t 1st seed should play more aggressively, at least until someone is ousted, when the ouster may somewhat focus on defense and slow play, but they the remaining 3 players should play even more aggressively. Or have I misunderstood something fundamentally in this game?
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
The following user(s) said Thank You: KevinM
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
31 Oct 2012 12:36 #40113
by wesile
Replied by wesile on topic Re: Finals are boring. Pt. 1: Slow Play
The game must be timed. 2 hours is enough for most games of 4-5 players.
IMHO I think that games with 4 players should only have 1h40m. Finals should have more ~20-30m than normal time.
I disagree with time-per-player. Lets say that I have 3 minions and that you are playing with a legacy of pander with a dozen minions on the table... not to mention time related with casting votes, making deals, reaction times, enkil cog, madness network, etc, etc.
One of the things that could be done is suspend the time during negotiations... political tables with no majorities usually end by time.
IMHO I think that games with 4 players should only have 1h40m. Finals should have more ~20-30m than normal time.
I disagree with time-per-player. Lets say that I have 3 minions and that you are playing with a legacy of pander with a dozen minions on the table... not to mention time related with casting votes, making deals, reaction times, enkil cog, madness network, etc, etc.
One of the things that could be done is suspend the time during negotiations... political tables with no majorities usually end by time.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
31 Oct 2012 13:14 #40117
by brandonsantacruz
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/
Replied by brandonsantacruz on topic Re: Finals are boring. Pt. 1: Slow Play
Maybe if the first seed just comes into the finals wearing a hat that says "Winning" in big letters people won't forget to oust their preys.
Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- brandonsantacruz
-
- Offline
- Antediluvian
-
Less
More
- Posts: 1284
- Thank you received: 229
31 Oct 2012 13:58 #40120
by TapeTaChatte
IC Organized play coordinator
Please contact me with any OP query using the mail in my profile
Replied by TapeTaChatte on topic Re: Finals are boring. Pt. 1: Slow Play
Being boring and coming to time are so not the same thing. I think it mostly depends on the personnalities of the finalists and the connexion existing between them.
We had a lot of fun playing the LCQ final in Prague even if it went to timeout because all 5 players knew each other pretty well and we were kind of the enthusiastic guys, in opposite I have seen finals going to time or even ending after 1h30 and no watchers being happy because the players were not speaking enough... but you can't blame them for playing the way they like, right?
We had a lot of fun playing the LCQ final in Prague even if it went to timeout because all 5 players knew each other pretty well and we were kind of the enthusiastic guys, in opposite I have seen finals going to time or even ending after 1h30 and no watchers being happy because the players were not speaking enough... but you can't blame them for playing the way they like, right?
IC Organized play coordinator
Please contact me with any OP query using the mail in my profile
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- TapeTaChatte
-
- Offline
- Methuselah
-
Less
More
- Posts: 253
- Thank you received: 102
Time to create page: 0.104 seconds
- You are here:
-
Home
-
Forum
-
V:TES Discussion
-
Organizational Questions
- Finals are boring. Pt. 1: Slow Play