Honest Idea for fixing overly strong master cards!

johannes wrote:

People need to get up from their chair, think about the current tournament environment and then make their deck to cope with GfiP, if you are afraid of that.

It has been noted several times now that to cope with the Girls is to play weenie X, Tupdog, Vignes or Wall of Doom. This, IMO, would have a negative effect on the metagame.

Suoli wrote:

It has been noted several times now that to cope with the Girls is to play weenie X, Tupdog, Vignes or Wall of Doom. This, IMO, would have a negative effect on the metagame.

See, but the way to cope with *most* viable, tournament contending decks is to play weenie X, Tupdog, Vignes, or Wall of Doom. As (well, at least the first 3, the last not so much) these are decks that are very good and win a lot, and are resilient, and can be relied upon in general to be successful.

So if Cybelle/Daclau is encouraging people to play, ya know, decks that are already wildly effective, does it really matter, as people are already playing decks that are wildly effective?

I'm yet in my life to see a Cybelle/Daclau deck in actual play. But I have seen plenty of weenie Dementation or weenie Dominate or weenie Presence or weenie Obfuscate or Tupdog or whatever decks in play and doing very well. So it isn't like Cybelle/Daclau is providing significantly more incentive to play decks that, ya know, are already really good at winning.

bakija wrote:

Suoli wrote:

It has been noted several times now that to cope with the Girls is to play weenie X, Tupdog, Vignes or Wall of Doom. This, IMO, would have a negative effect on the metagame.

See, but the way to cope with *most* viable, tournament contending decks is to play weenie X, Tupdog, Vignes, or Wall of Doom. As (well, at least the first 3, the last not so much) these are decks that are very good and win a lot, and are resilient, and can be relied upon in general to be successful.

If I expect to see weenies, Tupdogs, Vignes or Wall of Doom I don't hurl my shitty trick deck at the wall and pick one of those decks to play. I just include Ossian, Aranthebes or Gran Madre di Dio or adjust card ratios. With most decks you can't viably do that against Girls.

I dunno, I would prefer to have Girls as my predator over any of those decks you just listed. Probably as my prey also in most cases, well at least with most decks I would take to tournaments in first place. There is really just two things you need to do to take it out with a fairly normal deck... which is to tap Aksinya with some way (mind numb is probably best and most easily accessible card for that), and either get rid of Anthelios in some way, or eat his ashheap. The first option is likely easier since there is lot of ways to deal with a gehenna event, though the second way is more effective since it also hoses ashur. Of course if your deck doesn't bleed, then you don't even need to worry about tapping Aksi, making it easier.

Suoli wrote:

You say they aren't winning disproportionately often, I say they might be.

The crucial difference is that my position is based on evidence, and yours is based on conjecture.

Suoli wrote:

I don't think it's very practical to limit our analysis of the game to strictly empirical methods. We're just never going to have the level of hard data that would require. As a result, any useful insights on the game are ultimately going to be based on subjective experiences and deduction.

I agree, which is why I've arrived at the position I have. I've watched the TWDA and tournament reports, seen that there are loads of decks being played in and winning tournaments which are neither Girls nor antiGirls decks, and deduced that your fear is groundless.

Kushiel wrote:

I've watched the TWDA and tournament reports, saw that there are loads of decks being played in and winning tournaments which are neither Girls nor antiGirls decks, and deduced that your fear is groundless.

It's fair to say that there are decks in the TWDA that aren't Girls or antiGirls. But that's not my argument. I don't think it's fair to say with confidence that Girls hasn't and will not affect the metagame because there are decks in the TWDA that are not Girls or antiGirls.