Valerius Maior, Blur and Majesty/Immortal Grapple
03 Oct 2011 10:29 #11377
by Uncle Mofo
"Better to die quick, fighting on your feet; Than to live forever, begging on your knees"
Valerius Maior, Blur and Majesty/Immortal Grapple was created by Uncle Mofo
Just a quick question about the timing behind these cards and their effects.
When Valerius Maior, Hell's Fool (Camarilla) activates his effect (If Valerius strikes with a strike that requires Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, only usable to strike with a strike that requires Thaumaturgy), when does the additional strike resolve?
Were I to play Theft Of Vitae to steal 2 blood, would I then be able to play another one before my opponent's strike, or does the additional strike resolve following the pre-ordained strikes? This question also applies to Blur (Gain 2 additional strikes).
Also, having been on the wrong side of Immortal Grapple recently (My Baali combat deck centres around aggravated damage and blood theft), I was wondering if it was possible to counteract it with Majesty? I know the card says that both players can only use hand strikes, but I thought I'd test my luck.
When Valerius Maior, Hell's Fool (Camarilla) activates his effect (If Valerius strikes with a strike that requires Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, only usable to strike with a strike that requires Thaumaturgy), when does the additional strike resolve?
Were I to play Theft Of Vitae to steal 2 blood, would I then be able to play another one before my opponent's strike, or does the additional strike resolve following the pre-ordained strikes? This question also applies to Blur (Gain 2 additional strikes).
Also, having been on the wrong side of Immortal Grapple recently (My Baali combat deck centres around aggravated damage and blood theft), I was wondering if it was possible to counteract it with Majesty? I know the card says that both players can only use hand strikes, but I thought I'd test my luck.
"Better to die quick, fighting on your feet; Than to live forever, begging on your knees"
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03 Oct 2011 10:38 - 03 Oct 2011 10:41 #11378
by Ankha
See rulebook for details, but each pair of strikes (yours and the opponent's) resolve one by one.
So you resolve Valerius' first strike and your opponent's first strike at the same time.
Then Valerius gains a new strike. Your opponent may gain also a new strike (Blur, etc.). If only Valerius has an additionnal strike, play your strike card (opponent doesn't strike) and resolve it alone.
If both combattants have additionnal, resolve both strike normally (the same way as the first pair of strikes).
You play Theft (and gain an additionnal strike). Opponent strikes also. Both strikes resolve at the same time. Then you declare your additionnal strike and resolve it.
A bluring opponent gaining 2 additionnal strikes at superior would have to announce its 2nd strike and resolve it, then its 3rd strike and resolve it.
NB: Additionnal strikes are skipped if the opponent is already in torpor after resolving the previous pair of strikes.
See Anesthetic Touch for a card that "beats" Immortal Grapple.
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Valerius Maior, Blur and Majesty/Immortal Grapple
Just a quick question about the timing behind these cards and their effects.
When Valerius Maior, Hell's Fool (Camarilla) activates his effect (If Valerius strikes with a strike that requires Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, only usable to strike with a strike that requires Thaumaturgy), when does the additional strike resolve?
See rulebook for details, but each pair of strikes (yours and the opponent's) resolve one by one.
So you resolve Valerius' first strike and your opponent's first strike at the same time.
Then Valerius gains a new strike. Your opponent may gain also a new strike (Blur, etc.). If only Valerius has an additionnal strike, play your strike card (opponent doesn't strike) and resolve it alone.
If both combattants have additionnal, resolve both strike normally (the same way as the first pair of strikes).
Were I to play Theft Of Vitae to steal 2 blood, would I then be able to play another one before my opponent's strike, or does the additional strike resolve following the pre-ordained strikes? This question also applies to Blur (Gain 2 additional strikes).
You play Theft (and gain an additionnal strike). Opponent strikes also. Both strikes resolve at the same time. Then you declare your additionnal strike and resolve it.
A bluring opponent gaining 2 additionnal strikes at superior would have to announce its 2nd strike and resolve it, then its 3rd strike and resolve it.
NB: Additionnal strikes are skipped if the opponent is already in torpor after resolving the previous pair of strikes.
No. Majesty is not a hand strike.Also, having been on the wrong side of Immortal Grapple recently (My Baali combat deck centres around aggravated damage and blood theft), I was wondering if it was possible to counteract it with Majesty? I know the card says that both players can only use hand strikes, but I thought I'd test my luck.
See Anesthetic Touch for a card that "beats" Immortal Grapple.
Last edit: 03 Oct 2011 10:41 by Ankha.
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03 Oct 2011 11:16 - 03 Oct 2011 11:19 #11379
by Boris The Blade
-a Combat ends that is also a hand strike, like Anesthesic Touch
-a Combat ends that is not a strike, like Alpha Glint
-a card that cancels the combat altogether, like Obedience
Also note that Immortal Grapple can only be played at close range. If you have your own strikes to play (in your Baali they should work at long range too), your best bet is probably to add more maneuvers. They will never be wasted since they also let you avoid the punch for 1 of non-fighting opponents.
Replied by Boris The Blade on topic Re: Valerius Maior, Blur and Majesty/Immortal Grapple
No, that's the whole point of Immortal Grapple. To counter it, you need :Also, having been on the wrong side of Immortal Grapple recently (My Baali combat deck centres around aggravated damage and blood theft), I was wondering if it was possible to counteract it with Majesty? I know the card says that both players can only use hand strikes, but I thought I'd test my luck.
-a Combat ends that is also a hand strike, like Anesthesic Touch
-a Combat ends that is not a strike, like Alpha Glint
-a card that cancels the combat altogether, like Obedience
Also note that Immortal Grapple can only be played at close range. If you have your own strikes to play (in your Baali they should work at long range too), your best bet is probably to add more maneuvers. They will never be wasted since they also let you avoid the punch for 1 of non-fighting opponents.
Last edit: 03 Oct 2011 11:19 by Boris The Blade.
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03 Oct 2011 12:13 #11386
by Pascal Bertrand
Rulebook 6.4.3 wrote:
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: Valerius Maior, Blur and Majesty/Immortal Grapple
Correct.
Just a quick question about the timing behind these cards and their effects.
When Valerius Maior, Hell's Fool (Camarilla) activates his effect (If Valerius strikes with a strike that requires Thaumaturgy, he gains an optional additional strike, only usable to strike with a strike that requires Thaumaturgy), when does the additional strike resolve?
See rulebook for details, but each pair of strikes (yours and the opponent's) resolve one by one.
So you resolve Valerius' first strike and your opponent's first strike at the same time.
Then Valerius gains a new strike. Your opponent may gain also a new strike (Blur, etc.). If only Valerius has an additionnal strike, play your strike card (opponent doesn't strike) and resolve it alone.
If both combattants have additionnal, resolve both strike normally (the same way as the first pair of strikes).
Rulebook 6.4.3 wrote:
Each pair of strikes (one from each of the minions) is resolved before going on to the next pair.
Or if one of the opponents plays a strike: Combat Ends.
Were I to play Theft Of Vitae to steal 2 blood, would I then be able to play another one before my opponent's strike, or does the additional strike resolve following the pre-ordained strikes? This question also applies to Blur (Gain 2 additional strikes).
You play Theft (and gain an additionnal strike). Opponent strikes also. Both strikes resolve at the same time. Then you declare your additionnal strike and resolve it.
A bluring opponent gaining 2 additionnal strikes at superior would have to announce its 2nd strike and resolve it, then its 3rd strike and resolve it.
NB: Additionnal strikes are skipped if the opponent is already in torpor after resolving the previous pair of strikes.
Correct, can't play Majesty if Immortal Grapple was played earlier this round.
No. Majesty is not a hand strike.Also, having been on the wrong side of Immortal Grapple recently (My Baali combat deck centres around aggravated damage and blood theft), I was wondering if it was possible to counteract it with Majesty? I know the card says that both players can only use hand strikes, but I thought I'd test my luck.
See Anesthetic Touch for a card that "beats" Immortal Grapple.
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