Summon History + Reanimated Corpse

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

I'm not trying to disagree with the general principal that for cards such as Kindred Segregation or Consume the Dead, which check the cost of the card as it is in play, should still see cards such as Reanimated Corpse as X = 0 (the minimum required cost to put the card into play).

This is wrong.
Corruption vs Reanimated Corpse: [LSJ 20100413] "The cost is X: X is whatever X was set to when the card was played."
Khobar Towers vs Reanimated Corpse: [LSJ 20070201] "Tower uses current cost. For Reanimated Corpse, that cost is X."
Compel the Spirit vs Reanimated Corpse: [LSJ 20100307] "if I use it on a Reanimated Corpse, it will assume X=0"
Kindred Segregation doesn't really interact at all with Reanimated Corpse, since the ally doesn't cost pool, but blood. [RTR 20010710]

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

What I am suggesting is that in the same way you can declare a Villein for more than 2, you should be able to declare a Summon History for more than X = 0, lets choose 5 for the sake of a number, and put into a play a Reanimated Corpse as if the Reanimated Corpse cost 5.

The first part (setting the cost of SH to more than 0, similarly to Villein's terms being settable) is OK. The next part, where you set the RC's cost at SH's resolution, isn't, as I wrote above.

Juggernaut1981 wrote:

The difference between the other "put in play" cards I could easily remember and find all have text dealing with the cost of the card "put in play", such as Alastor, Bauble and Pier 13.

Notice that some of these cards read "equip/employ/recruit" (which allows more choice than a mere "put in play").


If we had an equipment with a cost of X pool / blood, Alastor would put it in play with X=0 (per the ruling above). If that card requires a discipline, use the inferior. [LSJ 20020311]

If we had an appropriate equipment with a cost of X pool / blood, Pier 13 would have the cost set to X=0,1,2, ... at player's choice. Level of discipline is up to the player. These two would have to be set when the "equip" part comes up. For instance, when you'd play Concealed Weapon on Tinglestripe, or Pack Alpha on Raptor, you'd announce the level of discipline.

If we had an appropriate equipment with a cost of X pool / blood, Bauble would have the cost set to X=0. (ruling above). Discipline level would be inferior. [LSJ 20020311]


At the end of the day (or night, for Vampires), what matters really is how the card enters play.
Is it "played in a normal fashion" (as an action, for retainers / equipments / allies)? In this case, set X, level of discipline, and eventually target (so far, this only affects Swarm). In this case, the card can be DI'd.
Is it "played in a non-normal fashion" (as in "this minion equips / employs / recruits" - examples are The Summoning, Concealed Weapon, Piper, ...)? In this case, set X, level of discipline. Swarm would go on your guy. The card can't be DI'd.
Is it "put in play" (as in "put this card in play" - examples are Alastor, Summon History, Bauble, ..)? In this case, X in cost is 0, level of discipline used is inferior. Swarm would go on your guy. The card can't be DI'd.


I hope this is clear and covers everything.

Pascal wrote:

If we had an equipment with a cost of X pool / blood, Alastor would put it in play with X=0 (per the ruling above). If that card requires a discipline, use the inferior. .

I don't think you actually placed the link to this ruling. Could you please provide it?

Scroll up four posts from that post you quote : vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/12975-summon-history--reanimated-corpse#13169
or two posts: vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/12975-summon-history--reanimated-corpse#13177

I don't know yet which acronym to use. "PB"? "FZD"? "BER"? "PAS"? "PIB"? "PBE"? Something else? Maybe we should have a referendum on that

Thanks. Didn't mean to seem objectionable, more playing a Devil's Advocate.

By the way... seems sensible for it to be "PB" as in "IANPB" or "IIRC but IANPB" .

PBR (Pascal Bertrand Ruling)
RTR (Rulings Team Ruling)

Shouldn't be too much confusion there.

Pascal wrote:

I don't know yet which acronym to use. "PB"? "FZD"? "BER"? "PAS"? "PIB"? "PBE"? Something else? Maybe we should have a referendum on that

PIB looks cool. If you are the Rules Monger, one of your initials should be mysterious.

Pascal wrote:

Scroll up four posts from that post you quote : vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/12975-summon-history--reanimated-corpse#13169
or two posts: vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/12975-summon-history--reanimated-corpse#13177

I don't know yet which acronym to use. "PB"? "FZD"? "BER"? "PAS"? "PIB"? "PBE"? Something else? Maybe we should have a referendum on that

Oh, this is a new ruling, and not taken from LSJ or the old rules team. I was asking for a link to your reference, but there isn't one

My guess is that your logic is thus: the cost of a card with cost X is determined at the time the card is played and only then. Since cards brought into play by Summon History and Alastor are not technically played, their costs cannot be determined. Zero is the closest equivalency to an undetermined cost.

I think many people will interpret the Summon History/Reanimated Corpse situation as Juggernaut did, so this is certainly one to consider adding to the official list of rulings.