Enkil Cog, House of Sorrow and Descent into Darkness

Pascal wrote:

Xaddam wrote:

A Methuselah taps House of Sorrow to untap Enkil Cog and plays Descent into Darkness as the vampire's action. In the Methuselahs next influence phase he/she returns the vampire to play, and uses the Enkil Cog before his/her next untap phase. Does the Enkil Cog untap during this untap phase?

I suppose the untapping via House of Sorrow + tapping of Enkil Cog + Descent into Darkness happens before that player's turn (let's say it's tapped in turn n). Which means when the House of Sorrow doesn't untap, the Enkil Cog isn't there (turn n+1).
In your situation, Enkil Cog will not untap as normal (turn n+2), because the next untap phase it would untap in, after turn n, is turn n+2.

Is this consistent with the House of Sorrow and the Coven ruling ?
I read that ruling to mean that the "don't untap effect" from HoS goes away from the Coven during my next untap phase, even if the Coven is controlled by another Methusaleh and the next untap phase I have the Coven it untaps as normal (as long as that untap phase isn't the next untap phase anyone controls the Coven during their untap phase). Hope you understand how I mean here, it gets a bit messy.
When re-reading the ruling, I get a bit uncertain though, since that situation isn't really addressed.

If my reading of the ruling is correct and the Coven doesn't remember to not untap during my next untap phase, I think the same should apply to Enkil Cog.

henrik wrote:

Pascal wrote:

Xaddam wrote:

A Methuselah taps House of Sorrow to untap Enkil Cog and plays Descent into Darkness as the vampire's action. In the Methuselahs next influence phase he/she returns the vampire to play, and uses the Enkil Cog before his/her next untap phase. Does the Enkil Cog untap during this untap phase?

I suppose the untapping via House of Sorrow + tapping of Enkil Cog + Descent into Darkness happens before that player's turn (let's say it's tapped in turn n). Which means when the House of Sorrow doesn't untap, the Enkil Cog isn't there (turn n+1).
In your situation, Enkil Cog will not untap as normal (turn n+2), because the next untap phase it would untap in, after turn n, is turn n+2.

Is this consistent with the House of Sorrow and the Coven ruling ?
I read that ruling to mean that the "don't untap effect" from HoS goes away from the Coven during my next untap phase, even if the Coven is controlled by another Methusaleh and the next untap phase I have the Coven it untaps as normal (as long as that untap phase isn't the next untap phase anyone controls the Coven during their untap phase). Hope you understand how I mean here, it gets a bit messy.
When re-reading the ruling, I get a bit uncertain though, since that situation isn't really addressed.

If my reading of the ruling is correct and the Coven doesn't remember to not untap during my next untap phase, I think the same should apply to Enkil Cog.

Hm, good point. I'll work a bit on that one.