file Ally playing action as a vampire w/ blood cost

28 Dec 2011 06:29 #19443 by jAvel
If an ally, that can play discipline card, would take action that costs blood, and paying that cost would kill him, does action resolve in such case?

For example, Marijava Thuggee (3 life) plays Sacrificial Lamb (3 blood cost): does he gain the blood?

Marijava Thuggee, Ally, 2 pool
Ghoul with 3 life. 1 strength, 1 bleed. Requires a ready Black Hand vampire. The thuggee can play cards requiring basic Obfuscate [obf] as a vampire. (..)

Sacrificial Lamb, Action, 3 blood, Obfuscate
[obf] Burn a vampire in torpor that you control. The acting vampire gains blood equal to the burned vampire's capacity (ignore excess blood). You may also transfer equipment from the burned vampire to this one. This action is not considered diablerie.
[OBF] (..)

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28 Dec 2011 06:57 #19444 by Chaitan

1.6.3. Minion Cards

Some allies have the ability to play certain cards "as a vampire." In these cases, the ally is treated as a vampire for all effects generated by the play of the card, including duration effects (like "for the remainder of combat"). The ally's life represents his blood (to pay costs, for example). Any blood he gains or loses as a vampire equates to a gain or loss of life for the ally. For purposes of that card, the ally has a capacity of 1 by default (for use if the card requires an older vampire or a vampire of a given capacity). If the ally gains life in excess of his capacity, it doesn't drain off.


groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c2cac96c8c5d4a27
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/caaf483412a94dc1
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/883e842f51d49cd9

The Thuggee succeeds with the action to burn a vampire with capacity X. Thuggee pays cost and instantly burns. The vampire does not burn. But for the sake of argument if the Thuggee had 4 life he would successfully burn the vampire and gain X life.

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28 Dec 2011 07:42 #19449 by Lönkka
So you need to do a bit of Leeching first and then get on with the evil Obfuscate shenanigans...

Hint: Often your crosstable allies aren't that hard to convince into allowing you the Leech on one of their guys.

Finnish :POT: Politics!

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28 Dec 2011 09:20 #19451 by extrala

The Thuggee succeeds with the action to burn a vampire with capacity X. Thuggee pays cost and instantly burns. The vampire does not burn.

I am not so sure about the "The vampire does not burn." Why shouldn't the action resolve?

Check this example where a Bima is bleeding with Govern + Conditioning, succeeds (the 5 pool are removed), and is then burned.
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_frm/thread/cf60c6485a61eac3

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28 Dec 2011 09:23 #19452 by Izaak
AFAIK, cost is paid when the action resolves. If the action resolves, the vampire burns.

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28 Dec 2011 09:50 - 28 Dec 2011 09:53 #19457 by Chaitan
It looks like I was wrong.

The three posts I linked to all refer to combat and since the resolution of the strike is separate from when you actually pay for combat cards it is not the same as paying for resolution of an action.

Here is a better link: groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/1533d67007b43f60/c458a7184f579206

6.1.6. Action Card (or Card in Play)

To take the action described by a card in play, announce the action and tap the acting minion. If the action is successful, it resolves as indicated on the card (and the cost, if any, is paid). If the action is unsuccessful, there is no effect.

II. PLAYING CARDS AND OTHER EFFECTS [1.6]
C. Pay cost and resolve effect ( unless canceled in step B ).
1. For actions
a. Wait until action resolution to pay cost and resolve (if successful). (IV.D.2)
b. If the action succeeds but the effect (or part of the effect) is no longer valid/legal (because the target leaves play, for example), the cost, if any, is still paid (since the action resolves unblocked) but the invalid portion of the action "fizzles" (is not applied).
c. If the action succeeds but the cost cannot be paid, whatever portion of the cost that can be paid is paid and the action "fizzles" (has no effect) instead.
d. The action card is "in limbo" (not in play and not in the ash heap) until it is put in play or sent to the ash heap (or removed from play) at resolution. [RTR]


So the action will resolve, the vampire will burn as the paying of the action and resolution of the action happens at the same time.

There is however the original question left then. As the paying and resolution happens at the same time will the ally burn? can acting methuselah choose order of events? I don't see any rule touching this topic.
Last edit: 28 Dec 2011 09:53 by Chaitan.

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