on burned minions (pressing flesh, goodnight sweet prince, blessed resilience)

hi, i have three rules questions pertaining to burned minions. any help would be appreciated greatly. thanks for your input!

1// __ suppose someone discards a 'renegade garou' or some other ally-card, can i bring it into play using 'pressing flesh'? what if the discarded (or burned) card was a 'veneficti' (requiring an infernal vampire)? do restrictions of any sort apply? also, is there any difference between an ally that was in play but got burned or a discarded ally (both ending up in the ash heap)?

Pressing Flesh [Action] [Thanatosis]
+1 stealth action.
[thn] Choose an ally that was burned from play. Move that ally from the ash heap to your ready region with this card and life equal to its starting life. This ally is a zombie instead of what it used to be, gets -1 bleed, cannot gain life, and may play cards that require basic Fortitude [for] as a vampire.
[THN] As above, but with an additional life.

Veneficti (Mage) [Ally][Baali][Burn Option][1 Pool]
Unique mage with 2 life. 1 strength, 2 bleed. Requires an infernal vampire.
Veneficti has +1 stealth. He can steal a demon ally or burn a demon retainer as a action. He cannot be the target of a action by a vampire with capacity less than 7 or an ally.

2//__ on a somewhat related note, can you play daemonic possession after a 'goodnight, sweet, prince' or was the vampire 'not controlled'?

Goodnight, Sweet Prince
Master [Ravnos] [2 Pool]
Only usable if you have at least one untapped Ravnos in play. Tap one of your Ravnos. Move the top card in the crypt of any Methuselah to that Methuselah's ash heap. If the card you place in the ash heap is a prince, gain 2 pool.

Daemonic Possession [Action] [Necromancy] [2 Blood]
[nec] Only usable when a minion controlled by another Methuselah has been burned since your last turn. Move that minion from his owner's ash heap to your ready region, put 1 blood or life from the blood bank on the minion and tap the minion. You now control the minion.
[NEC] As above, but the minion is untapped.

3//__ seterpenre or any other vampire which would have FOR+NEC (after playing some master:discilpine-cards on him or her). could you play 'blessed resilience' when they're burned later (are their added discipline cards remembered)? what if thoses dicipline cards are already back in play (through lilith's blessing for instance)?

Blessed Resilience
Master.
Choose a vampire in your ash heap with superior Fortitude [FOR] and superior Necromancy [NEC] who was burned from play. Move that vampire to your ready region.

porphyrion wrote:

hi, i have three rules questions pertaining to burned minions. any help would be appreciated greatly. thanks for your input!

1// __ suppose someone discards a 'renegade garou' or some other ally-card, can i bring it into play using 'pressing flesh'? what if the discarded (or burned) card was a 'veneficti' (requiring an infernal vampire)? do restrictions of any sort apply? also, is there any difference between an ally that was in play but got burned or a discarded ally (both ending up in the ash heap)?

Pressing Flesh [Action] [Thanatosis]
+1 stealth action.
[thn] Choose an ally that was burned from play. Move that ally from the ash heap to your ready region with this card and life equal to its starting life. This ally is a zombie instead of what it used to be, gets -1 bleed, cannot gain life, and may play cards that require basic Fortitude [for] as a vampire.
[THN] As above, but with an additional life.

Veneficti (Mage) [Ally][Baali][Burn Option][1 Pool]
Unique mage with 2 life. 1 strength, 2 bleed. Requires an infernal vampire.
Veneficti has +1 stealth. He can steal a demon ally or burn a demon retainer as a action. He cannot be the target of a action by a vampire with capacity less than 7 or an ally.

If someone discards a Renegade Garou, the Garou isn't burned "from play" (Pressing Flesh's cardtext).
Pressing Flesh ignores requirement. If the card required a discipline, use the inferior version with Pressing Flesh. [LSJ 20100302]

porphyrion wrote:

2//__ on a somewhat related note, can you play daemonic possession after a 'goodnight, sweet, prince' or was the vampire 'not controlled'?

Goodnight, Sweet Prince
Master [Ravnos] [2 Pool]
Only usable if you have at least one untapped Ravnos in play. Tap one of your Ravnos. Move the top card in the crypt of any Methuselah to that Methuselah's ash heap. If the card you place in the ash heap is a prince, gain 2 pool.

Daemonic Possession [Action] [Necromancy] [2 Blood]
[nec] Only usable when a minion controlled by another Methuselah has been burned since your last turn. Move that minion from his owner's ash heap to your ready region, put 1 blood or life from the blood bank on the minion and tap the minion. You now control the minion.
[NEC] As above, but the minion is untapped.

Crypt cards aren't controlled.

porphyrion wrote:

3//__ seterpenre or any other vampire which would have FOR+NEC (after playing some master:discilpine-cards on him or her). could you play 'blessed resilience' when they're burned later (are their added discipline cards remembered)? what if thoses dicipline cards are already back in play (through lilith's blessing for instance)?

Blessed Resilience
Master.
Choose a vampire in your ash heap with superior Fortitude [FOR] and superior Necromancy [NEC] who was burned from play. Move that vampire to your ready region.

Cards in the ash heap are treated separately.

porphyrion wrote:

2//__ on a somewhat related note, can you play daemonic possession after a 'goodnight, sweet, prince' or was the vampire 'not controlled'?

Goodnight, Sweet Prince
Master [Ravnos] [2 Pool]
Only usable if you have at least one untapped Ravnos in play. Tap one of your Ravnos. Move the top card in the crypt of any Methuselah to that Methuselah's ash heap. If the card you place in the ash heap is a prince, gain 2 pool.

Not directly relevant to the question, but something people sometimes miss... You can Goodnight Sweet Prince your own crypt. If you have Necromancy, you can then Possession (superior) the vampire, because Possession only cares about it being a vampire in the ash heap. It doesn't require it to have ever been in play.

Not the easiest combo to exploit by any means. Sargon Fragment on a Ravnos? A Ravnos with some small Giovanni helpers (which gives you issues about the odds of who gets hit by the GSP)? Qadir with a skill card (he only has nec natively)? Trying to exploit the Prince aspect of it is almost certainly right out.

you can always use the (often very complicated) combo of using eternal mask, heidleburg/rave, and martinellis ring on vamps you've burned with goodnight,sweet prince...

@jamesatzephyr, i hadn't read the 'possession'-text properly. i would have dismissed the idea altogether without your input, so thanks! will check. i always wondered why Chavi (GR5 ravnos red list) had (partial answer, i guess). is there really only grendel the worm (GR1)eaten who can look at the topcard of your crypt?

i've seen the eternal mask-combo work once with cybele. quite impressive IF it gets pulled off and a whole series of large-cap-vampires enter the game in quick succession (soul gem involved). martinelli's ring-angle is totally new. Callirus can get rid of the eternal mask too, or so i've heard (unfortunately he lacks ).