Poison pill

It's a series of simple question.

1- Does poison pill takes all effects into account, even those who are not directly/mandatorily triggered by the vote but also by the choices I make ?

Example :
I play assault rifles blabla.
my prey calls peace treaty.

I play poison pill, then choose to pay for both assault rifles.
Does my prey lose 10 pool ?

2- can you play poison pill on a vote that is automatically passing ? (Dia de los muertos, charming lobby, cryptic rider ?)

3- does poison pill check the pool I burn if my own predator controls Malkavian IC Lulz von Hohenzollern ?


card text reminder :
Poison pill " Only usable during a referendum, before votes are cast.
If the referendum passes and the effect of the referendum causes you to lose pool, the controller of the acting vampire loses the same amount of pool (in addition to the effects of the referendum). "

Lulz " Camarilla Malkavian Inner Circle: While Lutz is ready, your prey burns a pool each time the referendum of a political action passes. +2 bleed."

Reyda wrote:

1- Does poison pill takes all effects into account, even those who are not directly/mandatorily triggered by the vote but also by the choices I make ?

Yes, for example Reins of Power is a perfectly ordinary thing to play a Poison Pill on, which depends on choices. And that's a "may"/optional, like Peace Treaty - and you may not even have a vampire to choose.

Reyda wrote:

Example :
I play assault rifles blabla.
my prey calls peace treaty.

I play poison pill, then choose to pay for both assault rifles.
Does my prey lose 10 pool ?

LSJ provides an extremely brief "Yes" in [LSJ 20040519] , which confirms that it's playable. Which of course it is, because you could cycle it uselessly in all sorts of referendums. But I would have expected "Yes (but you won't burn any pool)" if that's the effect of it.

LSJ wrote:

> Is Poison Pill usable when someone calls a peace treaty and you choose to
> pay the cost to re-equip equipment that costs pool?

Yes.

Reyda wrote:

2- can you play poison pill on a vote that is automatically passing ? (Dia de los muertos, charming lobby, cryptic rider ?)

No.

From the rulings page: From that ruling:

LSJ wrote:

As soon as the action resolves (remains unblocked) - the time
that voting would normally occur, then vote instantly passes.

I can't think of any effects that escape this (though it would be possible to word one that way if you wanted).

Reyda wrote:

3- does poison pill check the pool I burn if my own predator controls Malkavian IC Lulz von Hohenzollern ?

I don't believe this has been directly addressed at any point, and I can't think of (or find) an analogous situation.

However, in a tournament off-the-cuff situatin, I'd almost certainly rule that Lutz's special is distinct from the referendum itself. It's triggered by the referendum passing, but not the same thing.

In particular, there's an existing ruling that Lutz's special applies after the effects of the referendum. So if you oust your prey with a Parity Shift, your grand-prey (now your prey) takes Lutz's special damage. [LSJ 20090731] Question s, from Floppy:

LSJ wrote:

> s/ I oust my prey with a vote called by Lutz. Does my new prey loose a
> pool ?
> If she does, is it during my turn she looses a pool ?
> Lutz von Hohenzollern
> While Lutz is ready, your prey burns a pool each time the referendum
> of a political action passes.

Yes.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Reyda wrote:

1- Does poison pill takes all effects into account, even those who are not directly/mandatorily triggered by the vote but also by the choices I make ?

Yes

Correct.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Reyda wrote:

2- can you play poison pill on a vote that is automatically passing ? (Dia de los muertos, charming lobby, cryptic rider ?)

No.

Correct. (yourl ink seems broken, here's the fixed on: [LSJ 19980701] ).

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Reyda wrote:

3- does poison pill check the pool I burn if my own predator controls Malkavian IC Lulz von Hohenzollern ?

I don't believe this has been directly addressed at any point, and I can't think of (or find) an analogous situation.

However, in a tournament off-the-cuff situatin, I'd almost certainly rule that Lutz's special is distinct from the referendum itself. It's triggered by the referendum passing, but not the same thing.

In particular, there's an existing ruling that Lutz's special applies after the effects of the referendum. So if you oust your prey with a Parity Shift, your grand-prey (now your prey) takes Lutz's special damage. [LSJ 20090731] Question s, from Floppy:

LSJ wrote:

> s/ I oust my prey with a vote called by Lutz. Does my new prey loose a
> pool ?
> If she does, is it during my turn she looses a pool ?
> Lutz von Hohenzollern
> While Lutz is ready, your prey burns a pool each time the referendum
> of a political action passes.

Yes.

Here's the explicit answer from LSJ: [LSJ 20100527] :

> * Poison Pill
> Lutz calls a Kine Resources Contested, assigns 3 to his prey and 1 to
> his predator, and his prey plays Poison Pill. If the vote passes, how
> much pool does Lutz' controller burns?
> It should be 3.

Card text.

Now, that might appear cryptic to some, but it means "3" here.

Pascal wrote:

Here's the explicit answer from LSJ: [LSJ 20100527]

Mmm, helpfully, that doesn't show up on a search for "poison pill lutz author:LSJ"