Re: On 'Enkil Coged' Spirit Marionette and Social Ladder

Hi.

I have a doubt about the interaction of an out-of-turn Spirit Marionette (e.g., played with Nahum Enosh or Saulot with Enkil Cog, in my predator's minion phase, no more minions able to act) and Social Ladder in my turn. What happens to the marionetted vampire when he bleeds (or must hunt) in my turn, by Spirit Marionette's text? Is the marionetted vampire, after returning his control to his original owner, burned on my influence phase, by Social Ladder's text?

I've seen a thread about a Malkavian-impersonated Blanche Hill with Madness Network, but I'd like to be sure:
groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/spirit$20marionette$20social$20ladder/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/Yg5d1vCim7w/yGQQV9nNKQMJ


Social Ladder
Master.
Put this card on a ready vampire you control. During your influence phase, remove this vampire from the game and move all the blood counters from that vampire to an older vampire in your uncontrolled region.

Spirit Marionette
Action
Obeah
Dominate
Bleed at +1 bleed.
Bleed at +1 bleed and tap a ready minion controlled by your prey (even if the target of the bleed is changed).
+1 stealth action. Take control of a ready untapped minion until the end of the next action. That minion must bleed your prey unless he or she must hunt.

Enkil Cog
Action Modifier
Requires a vampire of capacity 10 or more. Unique.
Only usable when this vampire successfully bleeds your prey (play after resolution). Put this card on this vampire. During any Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire may tap this card to attempt an action. This vampire has +1 bleed.


Regards,

Vinícius.

Nothing happens in your turn. Social Ladder is a master so it remains under the control of the methuselah who played it. All the "you" and "your" on the card refer to him. See the difference with Blood Doll for example:

Put this card on a vampire you control. During his or her master phase, this vampire's controller may move 1 blood from this vampire to his or her pool or from his or her pool to this vampire.

Social Ladder can only be on the vampire if it was played this turn, so I gues you are stealing a minion from the acting player. In that case, you steal the minion and if he cannot bleed now and no one else takes an action, the acting player's Social Ladder triggers (before your turn). The vampire burns and his blood goes to the acting player's uncontrolled even if he does not control the vampire at the time.

Boris, I believe what he want to do is taking control of the minion during its predator turn, then in his masster phase play Social Ladder on the stolen minion (which have not acted yet), then do the mandatory bleed, return it to his predator, and remove it from play with social ladder.

A wicked plan, that's for sure. And a hard one to do

Non-existant user wrote:

Nothing happens in your turn. Social Ladder is a master so it remains under the control of the methuselah who played it. All the "you" and "your" on the card refer to him. See the difference with Blood Doll for example:

Put this card on a vampire you control. During his or her master phase, this vampire's controller may move 1 blood from this vampire to his or her pool or from his or her pool to this vampire.

Social Ladder can only be on the vampire if it was played this turn, so I gues you are stealing a minion from the acting player. In that case, you steal the minion and if he cannot bleed now and no one else takes an action, the acting player's Social Ladder triggers (before your turn). The vampire burns and his blood goes to the acting player's uncontrolled even if he does not control the vampire at the time.

I got confused by all the "you" / "acting player" (notice that "acting player" isn't a constant Methuselah - it changes as the game goes on). It also looks like you got the wrong player playing the Social Ladder.

A plays Spirit Marionnette on E's vampire during E's minion phase. There is no other action performed in E's turn.
In A's master phase, the Spirit Marionnette'd vampire is under A's control. A plays Social Ladder on that vampire.
During A's turn, an action is performed (notice that, if no action is performed, Social Ladder burns "normally" during A's influence phase). The stolen vampire goes back to E after that action. Notice that the Social Ladder is still controlled by A, and any "you" on it refers to A.
Therefore, "During your influence phase, remove this vampire from the game and move all the blood counters from that vampire to an older vampire in your uncontrolled region." is the same as "During A's influence phase, [A] removes this vampire from the game and moves all the blood counters from that vampire to an older vampire in [A's] uncontrolled region."

So, yes, the combo work great (if you're A).

That sounds like an awful lot of moving parts for something that can be accomplished with some rush cards and Villein as well though