file Crypt's Son Timing

18 Oct 2012 00:48 #39391 by TryDeflectingThisGrapple
Crypt's Sons
Type: Retainer
Requires: anarch
Cost: 1 pool
Unique mortal with 3 life. Requires an anarch.
Whenever this anarch is blocked, he or she may burn a life from the Sons to cancel combat and continue the action as if unblocked. The Sons inflict 1R damage each round of combat during normal strike resolution.

Player 1 controls Minion A with Crypt's Son.
Player 2 controls Minion X, untapped.

Minion A bleeds Player 2.
Minion B blocks successfully and taps.

At this point in time, Crypt's Son's text can be accessed.
Player 1: does not burn blood from Crypt's Son and combat begins.

Minion A: no precombat cards
Minion B: Drawing Out The Beast, Torn Signpost, Carrion Crows

Minion A: cannot maneuver.
Minion B: does not maneuver and Immortal Grapple.

Minion A: chooses at this time to burn a blood from Crypt's Son to cancel combat and continue the action.

Legal play?
I assume so, but wanted to verify before I tried it in a game.

Rationale:
1) The criteria for Crypt's Son's effect has been met and remains valid.
2) Using Crypt's Son at this point in time is roughly analogous to Delaying Tactics after vote generating modifiers have been played, which is a generally recognized use.

Thanks in advance for confirmation

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18 Oct 2012 02:56 #39395 by theragnarok
Replied by theragnarok on topic Re: Crypt's Son Timing
You do not get the option to cancel combat once combat has begun. You have to use the Crypt's Sons text when blocked, before combat begins, similar to Mental Maze or Obedience.

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18 Oct 2012 03:33 - 18 Oct 2012 03:40 #39397 by TryDeflectingThisGrapple
Obedience: specifically states "about to enter combat" and ends the action (not canceling combat.)

Mental Maze: specifically states "(play before combat, if any)" and also ends the action (with no combat), thereby not cancelling it - just avoiding it.

Crypt's Son's includes no language that dictates a "before combat" usage - only that the "is blocked" criteria be fulfilled.

I am not sure that Obedience and Mental Maze are appropriate analogs for the Son's potential use.

I guess the gist of the matter is "is blocked" an event or a condition?
Last edit: 18 Oct 2012 03:40 by TryDeflectingThisGrapple.

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18 Oct 2012 06:28 #39406 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Crypt's Son Timing

Minion A: chooses at this time to burn a blood from Crypt's Son to cancel combat and continue the action.

Legal play?
I assume so, but wanted to verify before I tried it in a game.

Rationale:
1) The criteria for Crypt's Son's effect has been met and remains valid.
2) Using Crypt's Son at this point in time is roughly analogous to Delaying Tactics after vote generating modifiers have been played, which is a generally recognized use.

No, you have to use the effect *when* the condition if met, not later. It's not a lingering effect such as "during this action..." so the "remains valid" part in your reasoning is wrong. See also the topic about Horrific Countenance.

"roughly analogous" to DT is false because DT states "during a referendum".

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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18 Oct 2012 12:43 #39421 by TryDeflectingThisGrapple

See also the topic about Horrific Countenance..


Ah, there's a direct analog. Thanks for that reference.

I'll point out that in all those cases, the question for timing of playing cards is the issue - and Crypt's Son isn't playing a card, it's activating an effect already in play. But I don't think there is a practical difference - creating an effect is creating an effect, regardless of mechanism.

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19 Oct 2012 05:15 #39461 by Pascal Bertrand
Correct answer from Ankha. Crypt's Sons is used to continue the blocked action before the combat.

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