file Dabbler Questions.

18 Oct 2012 16:29 - 18 Oct 2012 16:31 #39438 by TryDeflectingThisGrapple
Dabbler
Type: Master
Master: archetype. Trifle.
Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he or she may gain 1 blood from the bank or burn 1 blood to untap (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archetype.

Question 1. Does the present tense of "uses 3 or more disciplines" imply that Dabbler cannot be triggered off playing a Monkey Wrench (assume a Keystone Kine bleed that previously satisfied 3 disciplines)?

I could argue both ways from the language.....but "uses....Disciplines to play.....during an action" seems to imply that the card used open a window for Dabbler MUST be discipline-based. Otherwise it would be "plays a card and has used 3 disciplines during the action"

While it seems a purely theoretical question, there is a practical and tactically relevant application. Either effect can occur even if the action is blocked, so it would be optimal to choose the blood gain option when a successful block might leave your minion empty.

Question 2. Does the parenthetical text seems to apply to both functions - meaning the blood gain or the untap - occur after resolution?

Again, I could make an argument either way, both from grammatical intpretation and analogous card functions.

The practical application of that question.....if the card were interpreted as (gain a blood) or (burn a blood to untap after resolution), then an extra blood to power Monkey Wrench would be available before a Keystone bleed resolves.

Question 3. Does the payment for the untap occur when the effect is triggered, or when the untap occurs? Based on other multi-action card functions, it seems like payment and untap should both be deferred.

Thanks.
Last edit: 18 Oct 2012 16:31 by Damnans.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tomas

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18 Oct 2012 19:11 #39444 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Dabbler Questions.

Dabbler
Type: Master
Master: archetype. Trifle.
Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he or she may gain 1 blood from the bank or burn 1 blood to untap (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archetype.

Question 1. Does the present tense of "uses 3 or more disciplines" imply that Dabbler cannot be triggered off playing a Monkey Wrench (assume a Keystone Kine bleed that previously satisfied 3 disciplines)?

I can't see the link between Dabbler, the present tense and Monkey Wrench. Do you mean pay the cost of Monkey Wrench with the blood gained with Dabbler?
Anyway, blood is gained after the actions is resolved by cardtext.

I could argue both ways from the language.....but "uses....Disciplines to play.....during an action" seems to imply that the card used open a window for Dabbler MUST be discipline-based. Otherwise it would be "plays a card and has used 3 disciplines during the action"

Once again, there is no "window" or such. The vampire uses 3 disciplines during an action => you can activate Dabbler.

Question 2. Does the parenthetical text seems to apply to both functions - meaning the blood gain or the untap - occur after resolution?

Sure. Gaining blood or untapping are at the same level.

Question 3. Does the payment for the untap occur when the effect is triggered, or when the untap occurs? Based on other multi-action card functions, it seems like payment and untap should both be deferred.

"Burn 1 blood to untap" is an effect granted by Dabbler, and this effects resolves "after the action is resolved". So you pay and untap at that time.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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19 Oct 2012 00:01 #39453 by TryDeflectingThisGrapple
In my attempt to be brief, it appears I didn't communicate the question properly.

I play Keystone. I can dabble. I can not dabble if I choose. If I don't......

I play Lost in Crowds. I have another opportunity to dabble, because I played a card and have met the requirement to dabble (again). If I don't dabble at that time.....

I play Moonkey Wrench. Have I met the requirement a third time? I played a card, yes, but THAT card didn't require a discipline. Hence the tense confusion of "uses" which implies now and "during" which implies a historical memory.

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19 Oct 2012 01:10 #39454 by Haze
Replied by Haze on topic Re: Dabbler Questions.
I'm pretty sure you don't choose (or gain) anything for Dabbler until after the action is resolved.

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19 Oct 2012 04:02 - 19 Oct 2012 08:57 #39459 by Juggernaut1981
I play Fleetness @ :CEL: and when it wasn't blocked, I play Iron Glare @ :POT::PRE:. Once the action finally resolves (at any point after I have played cards requiring three different disciplines) I can get 1 blood or burn 1 to untap.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Last edit: 19 Oct 2012 08:57 by Juggernaut1981.

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19 Oct 2012 07:05 - 19 Oct 2012 07:07 #39466 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Dabbler Questions.

In my attempt to be brief, it appears I didn't communicate the question properly.

I play Keystone. I can dabble. I can not dabble if I choose. If I don't......

I play Lost in Crowds. I have another opportunity to dabble, because I played a card and have met the requirement to dabble (again). If I don't dabble at that time.....

I play Moonkey Wrench. Have I met the requirement a third time? I played a card, yes, but THAT card didn't require a discipline. Hence the tense confusion of "uses" which implies now and "during" which implies a historical memory.

You can dabble "during an action" during which "this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards", but only "Once each turn".
It doesn't require (or create) a window each time you play a card. It just checks a valid condition during the action. I understand now why the present tense "when this vampire uses" puzzles you, but there's nothing wrong (it doesn't indicate that you must you the Dabble at the exact moment the 3 disciplines have been used). If a vampire bleeds using a Presence card, he "uses" presence during the action.

"Once each turn when this vampire uses 3 or more Disciplines to play cards during an action, he or she may gain 1 blood from the bank or burn 1 blood to untap (after the action is resolved). A vampire can have only one archetype."

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 19 Oct 2012 07:07 by Ankha.

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