Non-Mortal Minion

Eh, they are like the mage : they are mortal in the sense they can die normally, but they are not regular mortal anymore. And mage doesn't have the mortal keyword.

(and I don't trust the wiki on this part since it's contradicted both by each and every explanation on their reason of existence and by the rules. It's the same as saying that mage and ghoul were regular mortals)

Then trust the V:TES rules, which are available, have been quoted to you, and which should be the only consideration for your answer.

KevinM wrote:

Then trust the V:TES rules, which are available, have been quoted to you, and which should be the only consideration for your answer.

Have I said the rule should be changed ? For me, it's the same thing as 2-cap using Reform Body or Breath of the dragon : a rule-induced lore silliness. Which I never petioned to change.

And rule *have* been the only consideration in my answer.

Trigger wrote:

This is probablly a no-brainer but in the following rule for Orun pertaining to the Non-Mortal Minion piece. If I don't want to burn one Orun by doing a action, it would have to be tagrgeted towards a Mortal Ally and thats all, right?
I'm assuming all Vampires are Non-Mortal.

If this laibon succesfully bleeds for more than 2 or succesfully performs a action against a non-mortal minion, he or she burns one orun. Burn this card if this Laibon has more Orun and Aye than his capacity.

You can perform non-bleed actions directed at Methuselahs (such as Enticement, Revelations, ..), for Methuselahs are not mortal.
You can perform D actions against cards in play that are not mortal. This includes (but is not limited to): stealing the Powerbase: Montreal, playing Far Mastery to steal a Carlton Van Wyk, ..

So, the answer to your question is : "No - you have other options."

Careful Pascal, you might confuse him. The important take away is 'what can I do without burning my Orun?'

The reason you may do actions v. Methuselahs and not burn an Orun is because a Methuselah is not a minion. Non-mortal yes, but also not a minion.

The reason you may do stand alone (i.e. not atop vampires) actions provided by card text and not burn an Orun is because, well, the action isn't directed at a non-mortal minion. So in example, because Powerbase: Montreal (or D.C. or Chicago) are not non-mortal minions, nor are attached to non-mortal minions, you won't burn Orun when you directly take an action against them.

The reason you may Far Mastery Carlton Van Wyk and not burn an Orun is because he is a mortal minion.

You cannot do this with Far Mastery against Mylan Horseed because he is not a mortal minion.

You also cannot Far Mastery Tasha Morgan from Harrod without burning an Orun, because Harrod is a non-mortal minion.

You can however Far Mastery Tasha Morgan from Jake Washington without burning an Orun, because Jake Washington is a mortal minion.

One assumes (until a ruling says otherwise) that you may NOT do this again with Far Mastery against Thadius Zho, Mage because his text labels him a mage instead of a mortal, and so far the mage keyword has not been clarified to also mean mortal.

Delightfully this assumption also applies to animals, as their keyword has yet to be clarified as also being 'mortal' in the broader sense. So taking a action versus an Undebridge Stray is targeting an animal (a non-mortal minion), and thus will burn one of your Orun. Yay!

You may remove a Scorpion's Touch from your own non-mortal minions without burning Orun, as it is undirected then. To remove it crosstable from a non-mortal minion will burn an Orun.

Mercifully burning a Haven Uncovered or Pentex on a vampire will not cause you to burn an Orun. Even though the master card is placed upon the targeted minion, the action to burn is targeting the Methuselah who played it, thus not qualifying as a v. non-mortal minion.

That's most of the egregious stuff I can think of...

Your precisions are mostly correct, but some aren't.

Azel wrote:

The reason you may do D actions v. Methuselahs and not burn an Orun is because a Methuselah is not a minion. Non-mortal yes, but also not a minion.

Correct.

Azel wrote:

The reason you may do stand alone (i.e. not atop vampires) D actions provided by card text and not burn an Orun is because, well, the D action isn't directed at a non-mortal minion. So in example, because Powerbase: Montreal (or D.C. or Chicago) are not non-mortal minions, nor are attached to non-mortal minions, you won't burn Orun when you directly take an action against them.

Correct.

Azel wrote:

The reason you may Far Mastery Carlton Van Wyk and not burn an Orun is because he is a mortal minion.

Correct.

Azel wrote:

You cannot do this with Far Mastery against Mylan Horseed because he is not a mortal minion.

Correct.

Azel wrote:

You can however Far Mastery Tasha Morgan from Jake Washington without burning an Orun, because Jake Washington is a mortal minion.

Partially correct - you can do this without burning an Orun [EDIT: Fixed], but the fact that Jake Washington is a mortal minion is moot. What matters is that Tasha Morgan is not a minion, and thus not a non-mortal minion.

Azel wrote:

You may remove a Scorpion's Touch from your own non-mortal minions without burning Orun, as it is undirected then. To remove it crosstable from a non-mortal minion will burn an Orun.

Correct, but not for the right reason. "While in play, Scorpion's Touch is not a minion" is the correct reason.

Azel wrote:

You also cannot Far Mastery Tasha Morgan from Harrod without burning an Orun, because Harrod is a non-mortal minion.

Well, you can do this, as the action targets Tasha Morgan (not a mortal minion, but a mortal retainer) and not Harrod. You could also burn a Secure Haven on Harrod with Arson (this action targets the Secure Haven).

Azel" wrote:

One assumes (until a ruling says otherwise) that you may NOT do this again with Far Mastery against Thadius Zho, Mage because his text labels him a mage instead of a mortal, and so far the mage keyword has not been clarified to also mean mortal.

Delightfully this assumption also applies to animals, as their keyword has yet to be clarified as also being 'mortal' in the broader sense. So taking a action versus an Undebridge Stray is targeting an animal (a non-mortal minion), and thus will burn one of your Orun. Yay!

No need for clarification. These keywords are distinct, and there is no hidden implication.

Azel wrote:

You may remove a Scorpion's Touch from your own non-mortal minions without burning Orun, as it is undirected then. To remove it crosstable from a non-mortal minion will burn an Orun.

Wrong. Targetting a card on a minion doesn't target the minion. See also Arson on Secure Haven.

Azel wrote:

Mercifully burning a Haven Uncovered or Pentex on a vampire will not cause you to burn an Orun. Even though the master card is placed upon the targeted minion, the action to burn is targeting the Methuselah who played it, thus not qualifying as a v. non-mortal minion.

The target of these actions (burning Pentex, burning Haven Uncovered) is the card itself. See Salt of Thoth, Detect Authority or Ensconsed for examples.