Shortcuts in VtES Official Games
11 Jan 2013 18:14 #43960
by AaronC
Replied by AaronC on topic Re: Shortcuts in VtES Official Games
Hugh, I think your methods are reasonable, and I nominate you to update the Judges' Guidelines 
I don't know if the cited guideline that refers to an offending player not gaining an advantage is what always happens in practice. In Los Angeles (whose reputation in years past probably led to the "Points of Light" "can't forget a phase" ruling), it is often understood that any rollback is total. You take stuff back, and then you get to play stuff over. That isn't to say that a rollback is the same thing as an adjustment in pool or blood counters.
In the examples of declaring an action you can't pay for without ousting yourself or failing to declare the use of any transfers in your second turn before taking your discard phase action, the person making the mistake certainly has something to gain by the rollback.

I don't know if the cited guideline that refers to an offending player not gaining an advantage is what always happens in practice. In Los Angeles (whose reputation in years past probably led to the "Points of Light" "can't forget a phase" ruling), it is often understood that any rollback is total. You take stuff back, and then you get to play stuff over. That isn't to say that a rollback is the same thing as an adjustment in pool or blood counters.
In the examples of declaring an action you can't pay for without ousting yourself or failing to declare the use of any transfers in your second turn before taking your discard phase action, the person making the mistake certainly has something to gain by the rollback.
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11 Jan 2013 20:19 #43965
by KevinM
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
Replied by KevinM on topic Re: Shortcuts in VtES Official Games
Clearly not.@Kevin: What if, instead of "2 seconds", I had written "1 minute" or "5 minutes"? Would A still have been the biggest cheater in the world?
Watch carefully the players in your group/other groups/major tournaments that you KNOW are jerks. They will do things EXACTLY like in your example, trying to gain a mental advantage by not using a single verbal or physical cue for the other player(s). Because they are jerks.We each have our own perception of how long it should take to determine whether or not to play a card.

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017
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12 Jan 2013 00:08 #43974
by Squidalot
in progress....(slightly delayed by playtesting)
Replied by Squidalot on topic Re: Shortcuts in VtES Official Games
Hugh, I think your methods are reasonable, and I nominate you to update the Judges' Guidelines
.
in progress....(slightly delayed by playtesting)
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12 Jan 2013 00:25 #43975
by BenPeal
The EC in Barcelona, I believe. I was playing with a weenie Cel gun deck, had 3 pool, Concealed out a .44, and then my predator claimed I was ousted because I forgot to lose a pool for an Anarch Revolt. We called LSJ over and he rewound the game back to the untap phase and we played on from there.
Replied by BenPeal on topic Re: Shortcuts in VtES Official Games
Wasn't there a championship where someone accidentally self ousted with a magnom, but LSJ decided it should be rolled back because the player did not announce the cost while playing it?
The EC in Barcelona, I believe. I was playing with a weenie Cel gun deck, had 3 pool, Concealed out a .44, and then my predator claimed I was ousted because I forgot to lose a pool for an Anarch Revolt. We called LSJ over and he rewound the game back to the untap phase and we played on from there.
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12 Jan 2013 04:03 #43978
by Reyda
Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
Replied by Reyda on topic Re: Shortcuts in VtES Official Games
what, he really knew you forgot to pay but chose to mention it at that point to "rulebully" you or was it honnest from his part that he realized only at this point ?
Wasn't there a championship where someone accidentally self ousted with a magnom, but LSJ decided it should be rolled back because the player did not announce the cost while playing it?
The EC in Barcelona, I believe. I was playing with a weenie Cel gun deck, had 3 pool, Concealed out a .44, and then my predator claimed I was ousted because I forgot to lose a pool for an Anarch Revolt. We called LSJ over and he rewound the game back to the untap phase and we played on from there.

Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
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12 Jan 2013 04:25 #43980
by BenPeal
It was 10 years ago, so I don't remember that part of it (or even who won the game). I just remember that he was insistent that I was ousted and I was very keen on not being ousted, so we called over LSJ.
Replied by BenPeal on topic Re: Shortcuts in VtES Official Games
what, he really knew you forgot to pay but chose to mention it at that point to "rulebully" you or was it honnest from his part that he realized only at this point ?
Wasn't there a championship where someone accidentally self ousted with a magnom, but LSJ decided it should be rolled back because the player did not announce the cost while playing it?
The EC in Barcelona, I believe. I was playing with a weenie Cel gun deck, had 3 pool, Concealed out a .44, and then my predator claimed I was ousted because I forgot to lose a pool for an Anarch Revolt. We called LSJ over and he rewound the game back to the untap phase and we played on from there.
It was 10 years ago, so I don't remember that part of it (or even who won the game). I just remember that he was insistent that I was ousted and I was very keen on not being ousted, so we called over LSJ.

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