Guide and Mentor - Perfectionist

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Cavalier says: "Once per turn, when this vampire successfully performs an action that costs 1 or more blood, he or she may burn an additional blood to untap."In [LSJ 20100420] , it's implicitly asserted that this means "end of the action". But my question would be: additional to what? The cost? Seems that way from the wording. But then compare The Damned: "The vampire with this card burns 1 additional blood for each bleeding action he or she successfully performs (after resolving the action)." What's that additional to?

Probably to the "cost of the bleed action, if any".

I suppose the "additional" words on these cards don't really make logical sense. One gets the idea behind them ("do a little extra and you'll get something extra")

What worries me is the "additional" word on Forced Awakening: If he or she does not successfully block this action, he or she burns an additional blood.. That one makes absolutely no sense at all...

Additional does allow things to stack, so that text on Forced Awakening may have been a hangover from a time when minions could play the same reaction multiple times an action (if such a time existed in VTES).


I would just like to see a separation exist between payment of a card's costs and the resolution of its effects. It is implied in the rulings regarding actions where the minion does not have enough blood to pay for the card. Otherwise, a minion may be able to gain blood as part of resolution and pay the cost out of the benefits of the card (as has been done with Villein and Eternals of Sirius). It would also easily allow us to push these "successfully performs" type questions into a Freak Drive Window, or into a "When this is not blocked Window" and out of Action Resolution. (In the case of Michael di Carlo, his action would resolve into a combat so he gains the benefit after the action resolves (i.e. combat begins, action is resolved but not concluded).

[LSJ 20080506] Bima can play Govern + Conditioning, causing the target of the bleed to burn 5 pool (and Bima to burn).

[LSJ 20080512] Bima actually burns *after* the bleed is resolved, and after the VP and 6pool were earned.

I can't see your problem with forced awakening floppy.

You can EASILY have Dr Julius Sutphen with an archon on him playing sup force of personality, sup tenebrous form and safe passage at obe.

Then younger maskini play a forced awakening and attempt to block but is not successfull.

Forced will cause him to burn an additional blood.

Julius, Archon, Tenebrous Form, Force of Personality all have the effect of causing a minion who attempts to block to burn blood when announcing this attempt. That's way before resolution. That's before playing cards such as Darksight, or other +intercept cards that cost blood.

Forced Awakening has you burn blood (right) before resolution.

So it's not the same window at all, and tons of things might have happened between these two.

And Maskini special? I would think it happens in the same windows.

Edit : it seems not, Maskini state "at the end of the action" which can be way after the fail block attempt.