file Brothers Blood and Repair the Undead Flesh

21 Jun 2013 14:09 - 21 Jun 2013 14:10 #50151 by Eius P
I had one of those 'ding' [lightbulb] moments today but wanted to check I can do what i think I can.

Scenario:

  • Blood brother X is in combat with opposing minion Y
  • Blood bother Z :SAN: :FOR: and of the same circle has both 'brothers blood' and 'repair the undead flesh' already 'equipped'
  • Opposng minion Y does 1 aggravated damage to Blood Brother X

Q: Can blood brother Z burn two blood and therefore prevent Blood brother X going into torpor?

Thanks rules gurus!


Brother's Blood
Type: Combat
Requires: same circle Sanguinus
Requires a ready Blood Brother of the same circle as another one in combat.
:san: This vampire can burn his or her own blood to heal or prevent destruction from damage taken by a member of this circle in combat.
:SAN: Put this card on this vampire. The vampire with this card can burn his or her own blood to heal or prevent destruction from damage taken by a member of this circle in combat. A vampire may have only one Brother's Blood.

Repair the Undead Flesh
Type: Action
Requires: Fortitude
+3 stealth action.
:for: Put this card on this vampire. In combat, this vampire may heal aggravated damage by burning 3 blood per point healed. Burn this card if this vampire goes to torpor.
:FOR: As above, but burn only 2 blood per point.
Last edit: 21 Jun 2013 14:10 by Eius P.

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21 Jun 2013 14:18 #50153 by jamesatzephyr

Repair the Undead Flesh
Type: Action
Requires: Fortitude
+3 stealth action.
:for: Put this card on this vampire. In combat, this vampire may heal aggravated damage by burning 3 blood per point healed. Burn this card if this vampire goes to torpor.
:FOR: As above, but burn only 2 blood per point.


Repair the Undead Flesh is only usable when in combat. Blood Brother Z isn't in combat. Brother's Blood doesn't put you in combat, it just lets you use an ability while someone else is in combat.

(Similarly, playing Cloak the Gathering superior does not make you an acting minion.)

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21 Jun 2013 14:19 - 21 Jun 2013 14:47 #50154 by Eius P
But I'd argue that repair the undead flesh doesn't specify that it need be 'this' vampire is in combat. Just 'In combat'.

I think the intent being that it won't help with things like daring the dawn (action modifier)

Furthermore surely there are two states either 'in combat' or 'out of combat' the scenario above is clearly not 'out of combat' so must be 'in combat'.
Last edit: 21 Jun 2013 14:47 by Eius P.

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21 Jun 2013 17:50 - 21 Jun 2013 17:58 #50155 by jamesatzephyr

But I'd argue that repair the undead flesh doesn't specify that it need be 'this' vampire is in combat. Just 'In combat'.


Minions go in and out of combat individually. See, for example, [LSJ 20060702] , regarding Winged Second.

> Stanislava bleeds Ublo-Satha's controller.
> Ublo-Satha wakes and blocks; she subsequently enters combat.
> Saxum (with Depravity) plays Winged Second and enters combat as well.

Note: Saxum doesn't actually enter combat.


Since Saxum doesn't enter combat, Saxum isn't in combat.

See also [LSJ 20070820] . A vampire with Guardian Angel cannot use it if they take damage but are not actually in the combat (another Winged Second trick). Relevant card text: "This vampire may prevent 1 damage each combat."

John's answers are correct except as amended below:

>> - Can C prevent 1 damage with a Guardian Angel?
>
> No. They are not in combat and thus cannot prevent the damage (read it
> as '1 each combat that they are in'.)

[No amendment made.]


Furthermore surely there are two states either 'in combat' or 'out of combat' the scenario above is clearly not 'out of combat' so must be 'in combat'.


Vampire X is in the "in combat" state. Vampire Z isn't.
Last edit: 21 Jun 2013 17:58 by jamesatzephyr.

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22 Jun 2013 13:41 - 22 Jun 2013 13:42 #50178 by Eius P
Thanks, I'm trying to argue against it but I think you're right.

Dissapointing though :( Blood brothers need all the help they can get in my opinion and I thought that'd be a nice touch. I think it'd be in the spirit of both cards if it were allowed and I think there's enough ambiguity to ask for a ruling but I'll have to abandon the idea of using that.

If only the text were changed from 'in combat' to 'during a combat'...
Last edit: 22 Jun 2013 13:42 by Eius P.

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