file Shambling Hordes and Compel the spirit

24 Nov 2013 06:47 - 24 Nov 2013 06:59 #57031 by Brukaviador
Re: "When Shambling Hordes enters play, remove an ally or vampire in your ash heap from the game or burn the Hordes."

There's some debate among my play group as to what happens if the Shambling Hordes are burned, then a vampire uses Compel the Spirit at advanced on the burned Horde - Does one have to burn another ally from the ash heap when the Horde is retrieved from the ash heap with the Compel card?

A debate I saw online about this boiled down to whether the Ash Heap is "in play" or not. Since cards in the ash heap can be targeted by Necromancy (and other such cards), I was of the impression that they are in play until an effect happens where they're "removed from the game" (like the original ally I removed to bring out the shambling hordes in the first place).

So, burn a second Ally/Retainer when using Compel or not?

***EDIT***
Additional Question: Since the starting life of a Shambling Horde changes depending on whether it was summoned with basic or advanced Necromancy, how do I determine the starting life when it's been returned through a Compel the Spirit? I've played it as they get back the same life they originally entered play with the first time.



Shambling Hordes
Ally - 3 Blood Cost

Zombie with 3 life. 0 strength, 0 bleed.
[nec] When Shambling Hordes enters play, remove an ally or vampire in your ash heap from the game or burn the Hordes. The Hordes gets +1 strength for each life counter it has. It can never gain life; any life it gains goes to the blood bank instead. The Hordes can enter combat with any minion as a (D) action.
[NEC] As above, with 4 life.


Compel the Spirit
+1 stealth action.

[nec] Move an ally or retainer that was burned from play since your last turn from your ash heap to your hand.
[NEC] As above, but move it to your ready region (ignore requirements and cost) with X life from the blood bank, where X is the starting life of the ally or retainer. If it is a retainer, place it on the acting minion.
Last edit: 24 Nov 2013 06:59 by Brukaviador.

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24 Nov 2013 07:24 #57034 by drnlmza

A debate I saw online about this boiled down to whether the Ash Heap is "in play" or not. Since cards in the ash heap can be targeted by Necromancy (and other such cards), I was of the impression that they are in play until an effect happens where they're "removed from the game" (like the original ally I removed to bring out the shambling hordes in the first place).

So, burn a second Ally/Retainer when using Compel or not?


The ash heap is not in play. This is explicit with cards like Pressing Flesh or Resurrection which use "burned from play". So You have to burn a second ally when using Compel if you want the Hordes to stick around. Confirmed by LSJ here

***EDIT***
Additional Question: Since the starting life of a Shambling Horde changes depending on whether it was summoned with basic or advanced Necromancy, how do I determine the starting life when it's been returned through a Compel the Spirit? I've played it as they get back the same life they originally entered play with the first time.


Nope. Compel the Spirit isn't a recruit action, it puts the minion into play, and the rulebook explicitly covers this:

If recruiting the ally requires a Discipline and the ally is put into play by some means other than recruiting, use the normal version of the ally, if it is different than the superior.


So the Hordes only get 3 life. See here for one of many LSJ replies confirming that.

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