Waters of Duat and Enkil Cog

Had an interesting situation just come up that I wasn't sure about. Nakhthorheb is untapped and taps enkil cog to act out of turn. He plays Waters of Duat successfully. Does the Waters hunt during that turn, or during Nakhthorheb's next minion phase? The Waters card says that this vampire MUST HUNT THIS TURN:

Waters of Duat
Action

Follower of Set

[1 Blood]

+1 stealth action. Requires a ready non-Sterile Follower of Set with capacity above 4.
Put this card in play; it becomes a 1-capacity Follower of Set. You may search your library (shuffle afterward), ash heap or hand for a Discipline card and place it on this vampire (pay cost as normal). This vampire is not considered unique, must hunt this turn and is the same sect as the acting Follower of Set.

Enkil Cog
[Action Modifier] Action Modifier

Requires a vampire of capacity 10 or more. Unique.
Only usable when this vampire successfully bleeds your prey (play after resolution). Put this card on this vampire. During any Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire may tap this card to attempt an action. This vampire has +1 bleed.

Mandatory action cannot be taken.

Same as cogged Saulot marionetting during preds turn;

Minion sticks around until an action, the waters must hunt, but cant. Its still mandatory until it happens, so hunt during next time its legal.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Minion sticks around until an action, the waters must hunt, but cant. Its still mandatory until it happens, so hunt during next time its legal.

It's sort-of still mandatory. Which is to say, it's not actually still mandatory, but there might be a mandatory hunt.

The Waters of Duat text says "must hunt this turn". But it can't, because it's not allowed to act this turn, so it's stuck. The mandatoryness of the action from the text of Waters of Duat doesn't extend outside of this turn, though. Even if it was during your turn, it's possible that your turn might end before you hunted with the Waters of Duat. For example, you have two vampires, A and B. Last Stand is in play. A creates a Waters of Duat. Before declaring your next action, you tap Heidelberg emptying B by giving blood to A or the WoD. (If B was already empty, you'd have hunted with him before playing Waters. But you might have played a card during the action with B that cost a blood too.) B and WoD now both have mandatory hunt actions - B from being empty, and WoD from either being empty or (if you moved blood from B->WoD) from his card text for that turn. You hunt with B, get blocked, and oust with Hell for Leather, ending the turn without WoD hunting.


During your next turn (which is not the "this turn" from Waters), if you untap and are on zero blood, you'll then have a mandatory hunt action from being empty. But if you are not empty during your next turn, the Waters of Duat text "must hunt this turn" doesn't apply - it is not longer that turn. So, for example, if you moved blood with Heidelberg, no need to hunt. If you play Blood Doll on the Waters and move a blood to it, no need to hunt.

Ok, I was the victim of this mistake during yesterday game in lackey. I am too lazy to explain anything there.

Thanks guys.

Exposer wrote:

Ok, I was the victim of this mistake during yesterday game in lackey. I am too lazy to explain anything there.

Thanks guys.

Short(er) version:

- You must hunt this turn. If you can't hunt, you don't. Waters of Duat's text only cares about this turn.

- Whenever you get to your turn, if you're still empty, you'll have a mandatory hunt action, as normal for empty vampires. You have to attempt mandatory actions before non-mandatory actions.

- If you get to your turn and the Waters of Duat has some blood on him (e.g. Heidelberg, Blood Doll, being rushed and playing Taste of Vitae etc.), you don't have to hunt, as normal for non-empty vampires.