Masochism + Lightning Reflexes

Hi there,

Does anyone know if it is possible to use rush counters from the card Masochism (FOR) to pay for additional strikes from the card Lightning Reflexes (CEL), instead of burning blood?

Thanx

Miller wrote:

Does anyone know if it is possible to use rush counters from the card Masochism (FOR) to pay for additional strikes from the card Lightning Reflexes (CEL), instead of burning blood?

You can use Masochism counters to reduce Lightning Reflex's ordinary cost of 1 blood. You can't use it for the "Burn X blood to get X additional strikes" effect, because that's not the cost of the card. Similarly, you can't burn it to pay for Chiropteran Marauder's agg damage effect.

Back when the following ruling was made, Awe's card text had zero cost, but a burn X blood effect (like LR). It now has a cost of X instead:

[LSJ 20010723]

LSJ wrote:

>>If not, could you explain how Masochism & Awe interact? Thanks.
>
>The actual cost of cards is in the blood drop on the left border.
>This is the only thing Masochism counters can affect.
>
>If, as in Hidden Strength or Kindred Coercion, the cost is "X", then
>whereever X is referenced in card text is part of the cost of the
>card, and can be paid for with Masochism counters. Which is lovely in
>Trap/Undead Persistence decks *if* you can ever get the poor bastard
>back out of torpor once he's loaded up to full with counters...
>
>However, in Awe's case, X is only referenced in the card text itself,
>and the lack of a blood drop indicates that the card's cost is zero,
>or free.

Correct.

So:

- Lightning Reflexes and Chiropteran Marauder, you can use Masochism counters for the actual cost in the blood drop, but not affect the cost of the "burn X blood" effect
- Card with an actual cost of X in a blood drop, like Hidden Strength and the currently-worded Awe, you can affect the X cost with Masochism counters.


Note that even a 'free' card (no blood drop) like Chiropteran Marauder might acquire an actual cost by card text like Terror Frenzy, at which point you could use Masochism counters for that cost - but still not the "burn X blood" effect in card text.

I thought I was the only one who used Masochism......

As James said, cost isnt burn whatever to do whatever in terms of blood costs for masochism. It does give almost empty vamps tons of room to freak drive and deflect though.

The real trick is turning the counters to pool, awe and vc is obvious, but theres also reanimated corpse and pushing it off the tower. Needs setup, but it would be funny........

I just use it in many Gotsdam decks, or similar builds where I have a blocker with fortitude at big and I fight at close alot.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

As James said, cost isnt burn whatever to do whatever in terms of blood costs for masochism. It does give almost empty vamps tons of room to freak drive and deflect though.

Nergal + Concordance + Masochism + Force of will + darings
every ousted player = 6 pool

does this qualify?

Asnek wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote:

As James said, cost isnt burn whatever to do whatever in terms of blood costs for masochism. It does give almost empty vamps tons of room to freak drive and deflect though.

Nergal + Concordance + Masochism + Force of will + darings
every ousted player = 6 pool

does this qualify?

As utterly evil? why yes it does

Blooded wrote:

As utterly evil? why yes it does

Noooo tt becomes utterly EVIL when you add Enkil Cog and start to bleed them tapped with force of wills outside your turns