Psyche! vs Backflip

Backflip 
Combat
Only usable at long range.
Strike: dodge, with an optional press.

Psyche! 
Combat
celerity Press. 
Celerity Only usable at the end of a round when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion.

My deck was Shambling hordes and I built it using Glancing blows and Backflips.
Glancing blow to keep shambling hordes strong and backflip to exhaust gun maneuvers.
Because in my logic a gun maneuver is only usable once, so if I dodge and press Range will revert to close in the new round, making it equally usefull as Fake-out (which I don't own)

My predator was Anson/Volker celerity gun with ashur.

Situation:
I backrush Anson. He equips using Concealed Magnum.
He uses the maneuver to long.
I use strike dodge, optional press.
He uses the magnum.
Damage calculation: nothing happened.
I press to continue.
He plays Psyche! to start a new combat and recover his gun maneuver.

Now that the game is over I'm thinking he shouldn't have been able to do that (and he did it alot).
Because Psyche says "if combat is about to end" so while he plays it in the correct window (after a round) because I press to continue combat is about to continue and not end.

My thoughts about this is that he had to play 2 Psyche!. The first one to press to end and the second to start a new combat.
My conclusion is that it should also be like this if I am not acting minion because presses should be played before psy he to determine if combat is about to end or not, regardless of who declares first.

Please clarify how this should have played out.

2wayspeaker wrote:

Now that the game is over I'm thinking he shouldn't have been able to do that (and he did it alot).
Because Psyche says "if combat is about to end" so while he plays it in the correct window (after a round) because I press to continue combat is about to continue and not end.

Right. Psyche! is playable when combat is about to end, such as:

- a Strike: Combat Ends strike is resolving
- Rotschreck is being played
- combat is about to end through reaching the 'normal' end of a round and there is no uncancelled press to continue.

2wayspeaker wrote:

My thoughts about this is that he had to play 2 Psyche!. The first one to press to end and the second to start a new combat.

That would be one option that would work, yes.

2wayspeaker wrote:

My conclusion is that it should also be like this if I am not acting minion because presses should be played before psy he to determine if combat is about to end or not, regardless of who declares first.

It doesn't matter who's the acting minion/Methuselah. You both get the opportunity to play presses (following the normal sequencing rules), and only when you both give up(*) playing further cards/effects can it be determined if the combat is continuing to a new round or ending.



(*) Technically, everyone else would need to be allowed to pass on playing effects too. But I can't think of any cards that allow another Methuselah to force a press on you. Frenzy is closest, but played before range, and terrible.

But, for example, during a stealth/intercept fight, a third Methuselah can give the potential blocker intercept with Tourette's Voice .

jamesatzephyr wrote:

(*) Technically, everyone else would need to be allowed to pass on playing effects too. But I can't think of any cards that allow another Methuselah to force a press on you. Frenzy is closest, but played before range, and terrible.

But, for example, during a stealth/intercept fight, a third Methuselah can give the potential blocker intercept with Tourette's Voice .

How about cards like Save face and tranquility, can those played by minions controlled by methuselahs not involved in current combat?

Save Face

[Combat] Combat


Usable only by an untapped vampire not involved in the current combat. Only usable during the press step if both combatants are still ready.
Choose a younger vampire of the same clan who is involved in the combat. The chosen vampire gets a mandatory press, only usable to continue combat. If the chosen combatant is still ready after the combat ends, he or she gains 1 blood from the blood bank. Only one Save Face may be played each combat.

Better that we should die fighting than be outraged and dishonored. Better to die than to live in slavery.
Emmeline Pankhurst

Artist(s): Durwin Talon

Set(s): FN:C

Tranquility

[Combat] Combat

[Dominate] Dominate


Only usable by a ready vampire not involved in combat.
[dom] Cancel a frenzy card as it is played (no cost is paid).
[DOM] As above, and the target of the frenzy card gets an optional press, only usable to end combat.

Enough! Be seated and be quiet, both of you.
Don Michael Antonio Giovanni, Giovanni Prince of Las Vegas

Artist(s): Glen Osterberger

Set(s): KMW:R

Whisker wrote:

How about cards like Save face and tranquility, can those played by minions controlled by methuselahs not involved in current combat?

Ah, yeah, Save Face would probably do. (Though good luck with playing it.)