Card Replacement

Ankha wrote:

RTR8-8-8

LSJ wrote:

If one of the multiple targets becomes ineligible during the course of the
action, then it's handled just as if it had always been ineligible. The action
resolves on the remaining targets as above.

Hmm. That's arguable. However, as I say, in this case, it doesn't actually seem to target anything. I don't think you name the cards (otherwise why place them face down?).

Leaving aside everything else, say I picked a low number, like 2. I have 2 Protean cards in hand. During the course of the action, I play some Obfuscate stealth (i.e. not a Protean card), and redraw some Protean cards. Now I get to resolution and have 4 Protean cards. Which 2 can I put on Gift? I think you just set the number when the card is played, but am not 100% sure.

Also, assuming the card worked the way you suggest (which it might), say I have 6 cards (+Gift+ in hand when I play Gift. Can I say "7", hoping to redraw another Protean card (or even knowing that I will, if I've meddled with my library somehow), and then put all seven on during resolution? More generally. can I say a number higher than the number I currently have, because I know I'm going to discard/change cards in the action somehow?


I'm reminded somewhat of the situation with counters - where you don't target specific counters, just the thing they're on, and take as many as you can if there are insufficient by the time you get there (e.g. during a steal blood strike for 2, the minion drops to 1 blood, and also the consistent but contentious Villein ruling). I'm trying to think of an analogous situation where you might have been told to/volunteered to burn X cards, discard X cards etc., but can't think of a relevant one. And the counters ruling has always been reasonably self-contained.

Ankha wrote:

I added also the question with 6 cards since any card you'll play during the action is obviously one of the card you chose in the first place (whereas with 5 cards, it could be only the last card you replace again and again).

Gift of Proteus isn't a "Do Not Replace" action. Once you play it and it's not cancelled, you re-draw it. So you can play that seventh card, over and over.

Thanks! If you allow me to set aisde the special case subquestion of Ankha for a moment:

The correct question to my case is:
»Are the cards chosen when announcing the action, or upon resolution?«

And the correct answer is:
»You choose the cards for GoP/BotB, when you play it and announce its terms.«

Right?

*

So a good solution might be to set aside the chosen cards in my hand when playing GoP/BotB, like when I put aside the weapon to fetch when playing »Concealed Weapon« or when I put aside a second »Shattering Crescendo« when playing Shattering Crescendo to indicate I have it in my hand and it is not a replacemnet card.

Right, too?

*

The case Ankha and jamesatzephyr discuss is to make clear what happens, when some of the "set aside cards" are used during the resolution of GoP.

Right again?

Hakuron wrote:

Thanks! If you allow me to set aisde the special case subquestion of Ankha for a moment:

The correct question to my case is:
»Are the cards chosen when announcing the action, or upon resolution?«

And the correct answer is:
»You choose the cards for GoP/BotB, when you play it and announce its terms.«

Right?

Correct; and that also means: before replacing that master/action card.

Hakuron wrote:

So a good solution might be to set aside the chosen cards in my hand when playing GoP/BotB, like when I put aside the weapon to fetch when playing »Concealed Weapon« or when I put aside a second »Shattering Crescendo« when playing Shattering Crescendo to indicate I have it in my hand and it is not a replacemnet card.

Right, too?

Could do, but dangerous (as it makes a distinction between two sets of cards of your hand) and unnecessary. When in doubt, call a judge who can confirm the requirement (for Concealed Weapon, Shattering Crescendo, Blessing of the Beast, ...) is met..

Hakuron wrote:

The case Ankha and jamesatzephyr discuss is to make clear what happens, when some of the "set aside cards" are used during the resolution of GoP.

Right again?

Well, I suppose that's what they are aiming for.


Anyways, here are some answers to the questions that have raised in this thread:

- The declaration of the Gift of Proteus / Blessing of the Beast contains a number (named "any" in the cardtexts). So you'd say, for exampl,e "Mimir plays superior Gift of Proteus and I'll be moving 4 cards". At that point, Gift of Proteus is no longer in your hand, and you need (at least) 4 cards requiring Protean in your hand.
- If, for some reason, we reach successful resolution with a different set of 4 cards, it doesn't matter, as only "4" was part of the terms, the specific cards, or their names, wasn't. So on successful resolution, you would still have to move 4 cards from your hand to Gift of Proteus.
- If, for some reason, you have more than 4 cards requiring Protean at successful resolution, choose any 4 and move them to Gift of Proteus.
- If, for some reason, you have less than 4 cards requiring Protean at successful resolution, choose as many as possible and move them to Gift of Proteus.

This last ruling reflects [groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/r-N65rA52uo/OXW8xk1r1iMJ][LSJ 20090722][/url] - Sudario Refraction vs Erciyes Fragments ruling's intent.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Also, assuming the card worked the way you suggest (which it might), say I have 6 cards (+Gift+ in hand when I play Gift. Can I say "7", hoping to redraw another Protean card (or even knowing that I will, if I've meddled with my library somehow), and then put all seven on during resolution? More generally. can I say a number higher than the number I currently have, because I know I'm going to discard/change cards in the action somehow?

No, as the declaration of that term would be incorrect when it would be made.

Ankha wrote:

Let's say I have 1 Gift of Proteus in hand, 3 Flesh of Marble and 3 Form of Mist. I play Gift of Proteus and announce 5 cards. The action is blocked. During combat, I play Flesh of Marble and Form of Mist to continue the action. The action is not blocked. Which cards can I put on Gift of Proteus?

Any set of up-to-5 cards that require Protean (but you cannot move less than 5 if you have 5).

Ankha wrote:

Same question with 6 cards.

Any set of up-to-6 cards that require Protean (but you cannot move less than 6 if you have 6).