lightbulb Modifing Govern the Aligned, or Computer Hacking

18 May 2015 04:30 #71172 by dabbler
All of a sudden my Giovanni deck became a serious threat.

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18 May 2015 05:18 #71174 by jamesatzephyr

Ok. I got carried away. So the other matter is legit?


That you can stack up a bunch of permanents for a huge bleed? Sure, if you want. Mostly (but not always) people don't want to go that high for a few reasons:

1) It's slow to set up. You may find yourself bled out by an aggressive predator while you still have a hand full of J.S. Simmons, Blood Doll, and other permanents. That's not "don't play permanents at all" - but if you're trying to bring out seventy-bajillion of them, you end up having hands full of them.

2) All your eggs in one basket. If you have one huge vampire, it's possible to lose them, even if you play a bunch of combat defence and Secure Haven and things. Losing that vampire to a combat can be extremely painful. Getting hit with Sensory Deprivation can be extremely painful. Getting hit with Archon Investigation during a bleed for 7 and losing several permanents can be extremely painful.

3) Bleed bounce. Getting bounced to your grand-prey is exceptionally painful in this situation.

All of a sudden my Giovanni deck became a serious threat.


Giovanni power bleed has a long and pretty successful history. Mid-size bleeds with Govern and some bleed mods, Seduction, Call of the Hungry Dead, a few Misdirection, with a bunch of Dominate defence. Plenty of examples of tournament winning decks doing that sort of thing.
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18 May 2015 08:53 - 18 May 2015 08:54 #71182 by Pascal Bertrand

can Forshadowing Destruction be played after conditioning. or theats?


No. Conditioning's card text says: "You cannot play another action modifier to increase this bleed amount." and Foreshadowing Destruction is an action modifier.

Threats says "After playing this card, you cannot play another action modifier to further increase the bleed for this action." and Foreshadowing Destruction is an action modifier.

Correct in 99.99% of the cases. But some players might want to know that, under certain circumstances, you actually can play Foreshadowing Destruction after Conditioning (read below !).

The only case when playing superior Foreshadowing Destruction after Conditioning is legal is when bleeding someone above 9 pool. Indeed, at this point, superior Foreshadowing Destruction doesn't increase the bleed, and thus isn't forbidden by the previously played Conditioning.
[LSJ 20080108]

So, if Keith Moody bleeds with Govern the Unaligned, and sup' Conditioning against a target who has more than 9 pool, Keith can play superior Foreshadowing Destruction. The bleed would still be a bleed for 6.

However, if deflected to someone with less than 10 pool, the bleed would become a bleed for 9. [LSJ 20010321]
Last edit: 18 May 2015 08:54 by Pascal Bertrand.
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18 May 2015 10:08 #71194 by Ankha

can Forshadowing Destruction be played after conditioning. or theats?


No. Conditioning's card text says: "You cannot play another action modifier to increase this bleed amount." and Foreshadowing Destruction is an action modifier.

Threats says "After playing this card, you cannot play another action modifier to further increase the bleed for this action." and Foreshadowing Destruction is an action modifier.

As a nitpick, you could play Foreshadowing Destruction at superior if the target of the bleed has more than 10 pool, since it doesn't increase the bleed amount.

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