Red Herring vs. Strix

This occurred last night in a game, and we had a difference of opinion as to the proper way to handle it. I didn't see anything in the rulings to address it, either.

Hivemind and official advice would be appreciated.


(Bold emphasizes relevant information).


Acting vampire (AV) attempts to bleed.

Target methuselah taps a blocking vampire (BV) and plays inferior Strix:

+1 intercept, even if intercept is not yet needed. If this vampire successfully blocks this action, he or she untaps at the end of the action. [str] is not a Discipline.

AV then plays Red Herring at superior:

Only usable when this acting vampire is blocked. Untap the acting vampire, do not tap the blocking minion, and cancel the current action and combat. Take the card played to perform the action (if any) back into your hand. Your vampires cannot attempt the same action again this turn. Discard down to your hand size.
[CHI] As above, but tap the blocking minion.

The action MUST be blocked for Red Herring to be played, so Strix's ability will trigger. However, we had an argument as to what happens to the blocking vampire - is she tapped or untapped when the next action begins?

Strix says that BV is untapped "at the end of the action;" does a canceled action actually "end," or is it somehow nullified and thus never began and cannot "end"?

If the canceled action does indeed "end", does it "end" before or after the Red Herring's tap command is executed (e.g., in which order are the tap/untap commands executed)?

i believe it's quite clear from wording in Red Herring...

as card text says:
Only usable when this acting vampire is blocked. Untap the acting vampire, do not tap the blocking minion, and cancel the current action and combat. Take the card played to perform the action (if any) back into your hand. Your vampires cannot attempt the same action again this turn. Discard down to your hand size.
[CHI] As above, but tap the blocking minion.

canceled action = no action to untap after by Strix effect.

pretty similar logic to cancel action effect from Kiss of Ra.
cancel combat effect is very similar in emulation as Mirror walk so it should overcome all related effect same as Gargoyle slave status usage for example

careful with canceled actions and combat here. few remarks i have on the top of my head
- canceled action has no 'END action' window so technically after canceled action you have no 'window' for freak drive or similar cards
- even if combat was canceled you are allowed to play after combat cards (cat's guidance inferior after mirror walk cancelled combat for example)
- after cancel action card was played technically there are no more cards allowed to be played 'during this action' (yeah sounds dumb a little as it's now canceled). this means that for example after change of target you are not allowed to play cat's guidance. only allowed cards are those that will cancel 'cancel action cards' (Direct intervention for example)
- i have to admit i'm not 100% sure how does it refer to No repeat action rules., but in case you will untap in any manner (Mylan horsed for example) you are allowed to take same action again (Tangle atropos hand even goes for bonuses exactly on this effect)

I get what you're saying, and understand your point.

End of Action ≠ After the Action

However, I found three cards that could use a bit of clarification in the face of Red Herring:

Skidmark: When Skidmark is acting, you do not replace any cards you play until the end of the action.

Minor Curse: [mal] Put this card on any minion. This minion's controller doesn't replace cards played by this minion until the end of the action. [mal] is not a Discipline.

If the relevant action is canceled, when are the cards replaced? Perhaps these effects need to be altered to "after the action?"


Additionally, the Dagger can get weird if the action is allowed to continue after a combat in which it is used:

Dagger: Strike: strength ranged damage and, after strike resolution, put this weapon out of play until the end of the action

If this ability of the Dagger were used, and a vampire used another ability to end combat in a later round of combat, and then continue the action, what happens to the dagger if the action subsequently gets canceled? Does it stay out of play for the remainder of the game?

Admittedly, a great deal of circumstances would have to occur for the Dagger's "end of action" effect to become relevant. Nevertheless, it *could* happen, and the fate of the dagger is unclear in such a case.