Illusion of the kindred and amaranth

Hi

Amaranth says "(...) not usableby a vampire being burned or going to torpor. "
Does that mean that an illusion can eat someone if it can survive the combat? And what about timming, is the ilussion able to play cards at the end of the round in which it sent someone into torpor(taste of vitae for example?

Many thanks in advance


Illusion of the kindred
Only usable before range is determined.
Chimerstry Combat ends. Move the bottom card of your crypt to your ready region. He or she does not contest any other minions or titles in play. The vampire has an amount of blood equal to half of his or her capacity (round down). Combat begins between the vampire and the opposing minion. Remove the crypt card from the game at the end of combat.
Chimerstry As above, but the vampire has an amount of blood equal to his or her capacity.

Amaranth
Only usable by a vampire who can commit diablerie. Only usable when the opposing vampire should go to torpor. Diablerize the opposing vampire instead. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going to torpor.

taste of vitae
Only usable at the end of a round of combat. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going to torpor.
This vampire gains an amount of blood equal to the amount lost by the opposing vampire to damage during this round. A vampire may play only one Taste of Vitae each round.

Nac wrote:

Hi

Amaranth says "(...) not usableby a vampire being burned or going to torpor. "
Does that mean that an illusion can eat someone if it can survive the combat?

Yes. [FZD 20110726]

Pascal wrote:

Play Amaranth when the opposing vampire is going to torpor? Yes, even if your vampire is an Illusions of the Kindred.

Nac wrote:

And what about timming, is the ilussion able to play cards at the end of the round in which it sent someone into torpor(taste of vitae for example?

The key thing here is that all combat cards are played in combat. If you can play a combat card, the combat isn't over - so the Illusion is still around and not being burned by any current effect.

Nac wrote:

Hi

Amaranth says "(...) not usableby a vampire being burned or going to torpor. "
Does that mean that an illusion can eat someone if it can survive the combat?

To answer your questions more specifically: the Illusion will be removed from the game at the end of combat, which is not the same as being burned. Burned cards go to the ash heap, while cards that are removed from the game go in a separate pile that is not the ash heap. Therefore, the Illusion is not restricted by the text on Amaranth.

And what about timming, is the ilussion able to play cards at the end of the round in which it sent someone into torpor(taste of vitae for example?

"End of combat" is a timing window during which effects that occur during the "end of combat" can be played or must happen. In theory, all such effects can be ordered according to the existing rules. Thus, if you are the acting player, your acting Illusion can play as many "end of combat" effects as you want before you activate the text of the IotK and remove it from the game. (Of course, there may be an idiosyncratic ruling to the contrary someplace.)

AaronC wrote:

Nac wrote:

Hi

Amaranth says "(...) not usableby a vampire being burned or going to torpor. "
Does that mean that an illusion can eat someone if it can survive the combat?

To answer your questions more specifically: the Illusion will be removed from the game at the end of combat, which is not the same as being burned. Burned cards go to the ash heap, while cards that are removed from the game go in a separate pile that is not the ash heap. Therefore, the Illusion is not restricted by the text on Amaranth.

And what about timming, is the ilussion able to play cards at the end of the round in which it sent someone into torpor(taste of vitae for example?

"End of combat" is a timing window during which effects that occur during the "end of combat" can be played or must happen. In theory, all such effects can be ordered according to the existing rules. Thus, if you are the acting player, your acting Illusion can play as many "end of combat" effects as you want before you activate the text of the IotK and remove it from the game. (Of course, there may be an idiosyncratic ruling to the contrary someplace.)

AFAIK this is how it works. No blood hunt for a non-existant illusion. Genina can illusion up a Samedi to compress anamranth, I've talked this over with other players before. I feel like someone used to do it with dbr zipgun when that still worked.

Other things that work is illusion with the Bar do of the caravan, you flip a pot for supporter, hands one, soak, disarm amaranth. Never tried it, sounds funny though.

ReverendRevolver wrote:

AFAIK this is how it works. No blood hunt for a non-existant illusion.

But when an Illusion plays Amaranth, the Illusion is still there, so you handle the blood hunt, which might result in the Illusion being burned (instead of being removed from the game).

vekn.net/card-rulings/card-rulings-g-to-o
Consider, for example, that Lay Low can be played as a combat card, after a blood hunt referendum. Combat isn't over.

I was thinking about illusion-coma-amaranth, dem rav have enough crypt to try